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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

No same sex civil partnerships

191 replies

Applebite · 21/02/2017 11:52

AIBU to wonder who would take this to Court? Surely the point of civil partnerships was to recognise FINALLY that gay people have the same rights and needs as hetero people?

Or am I missing something that you get in a civil partnership but not a marriage? I mean, I can see why you might not want to get married, and why you would think there should be more rights for "common law spouses", but would a civil partnership give you anything (or less of something) that marriage wouldn't?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/heterosexual-couple-learn-outcome-civil-partnership-battle-court/

OP posts:
PeachMelba78 · 21/02/2017 14:31

Random and Lotta when you have a civil wedding ceremony there is no talk of till death do you part and consummation. And certainly for gay couples many of us cannot have a religious ceremony depending on what faith the couple belong to or whether their place of worship will carry out a same sex wedding.

Lottapianos · 21/02/2017 14:32

All those sneering about 'first world problems', feel free not to give this issue another thought. Maybe go off and start a thread about Big Important Things instead. This is an important issue for some of us

MuseumOfCurry · 21/02/2017 14:32

There should be the option for either marriage or civil partnership for opposite and same sex couples. Whatever the couple prefer.
It occurs to me in reading this thread that the distinction is cultural, so it should be addressed by cultural institutions e.g. Church or similar. The state is here to offer and enforce the contract.

Lottapianos · 21/02/2017 14:33

Indeed Knit. Fatuous and rather offensive.

1AnnoyingOrange · 21/02/2017 14:33

Sorry if I am being dim, but I have friends in opposite sex commited relationships with or without children.
For whatever reason they don't want to get married.

Maybe they would want a partnership agreement, for the duration of their relationship? Wouldnt this give them the legal protection of marriage? Maybe they should be drawing up a cohabitation agreements, but they are not. Surely it wouldnt be a big deal to change it to opposite sex couples? Otherwise it remains just a, state of being, for same sex couples, and then it will remain associated as a "not-marriage", instead of it could be something people choose.

RandomMess · 21/02/2017 14:37

PeachMelba78 there are still things in a civil wedding ceremony that my friend is not happy with, she doesn't want to be a wife either. I feel her and her partner should be allowed to have a CP for the legal protection it gives - end of!

"You don’t need to exchange vows for a civil partnership, but you can do so if you wish" How clearly can you put it - for a CP you do not have to SAY anything, you can go in sign the paperwork, legal protection achieved - that is what they want - nothing more nothing less. Why as a heterosexual couple should they not have that?

RandomMess · 21/02/2017 14:40

If people want a civil partnership for legal rights all they need to do is to get legal protection drawn up for inheritance, children etc.

You do realise that wills can & are challenged?

You do realise some pensions will not give a non-spouse the same right as a nominated beneficiary?

You do realise that widowed benefit cannot be claimed if you don't have a legal partnership?

PurpleTraitor · 21/02/2017 14:41

Marriage, transference of ownership, being given away, losing your 'maiden'hood 'maiden' name, women as chattels, virginal white, rings of ownership, declaration before god, promise to obey, the marriage bed, the marital home, the marital assets, the children of the marriage, automatic parental responsibility, the wife, trouble and strife, the nuclear family, arranged marriages, forced marriages, child bride, virgin bride, consummation, annulment, divorce, divorce settlements, pre-nups, wedlock, illegitimate children, bastards, adultery, marital rape.

It's nice that we can pick and choose our traditions but marriage has a long history, a long, long list of associations, and because of its cultural value we don't get to choose how other people view it. I might say I'll get married like this and it will mean this to me and I'll pick this tradition and leave that one, but it'll still be marriage, and all the above will still surround it and its history.

That's why I choose to be unmarried.

BoccadiLupa · 21/02/2017 14:43

My colleague and I (we are lawyers, I know Blush) we decided today that we'd look up the different rights which are available for civil partners and people who get married and the answer is BOTH GIVE YOU PRECISELY THE SAME RIGHTS. So this is all nonsense this case. just head off to the Registry Office and get married, no need for a wedding, or a wedding reception, or to tell anyone at all.

Lottapianos · 21/02/2017 14:43

Great post Purple. I feel exactly the same, for all of those reasons

MrsJayy · 21/02/2017 14:43

I dont understand this I hate the insitute of marraige , marraige is a legal binding contract can be done in 10 minutes this couple annoyed me it was a case of they have that and we want it. CP was introduced to give gay couple legal rights and it is a ridiculous concept for hetro sexual couples who had rights living with an opposite sex partner.

RacingWithAGlitch · 21/02/2017 14:46

Marriage, transference of ownership, being given away, losing your 'maiden'hood 'maiden' name, women as chattels, virginal white, rings of ownership, declaration before god, promise to obey, the marriage bed, the marital home, the marital assets, the children of the marriage, automatic parental responsibility, the wife, trouble and strife, the nuclear family, arranged marriages, forced marriages, child bride, virgin bride, consummation, annulment, divorce, divorce settlements, pre-nups, wedlock, illegitimate children, bastards, adultery, marital rape.

High five, Purple!

RandomMess · 21/02/2017 14:47

"Just head off to the Registry Office and get married, no need for a wedding, or a wedding reception, or to tell anyone at all."

But you have to say certain wording

You then legally become someone's legal spouse

So yes there are differences!

PurpleMinionMummy · 21/02/2017 14:47

Same sex couples should have been allowed to marry, end of problem. Marriage is just a name for the commitment that two people make to each other. What it's called is fairly irrelevant to me and with CP essentially being the same thing, it just feels like making a fuss for the sake of it. I guess they could always scrap both and call them legal partnerships? Although I dare say the terms husband and wife would still be used regardless.

Maybe we could make conscious un-coupling a new legal entity for those who want all the benefits of being legally separated without the divorced label attached whilst we're at it.

KnitMeAUnicorn · 21/02/2017 14:48

So this is all nonsense this case. just head off to the Registry Office and get married,

Some of us don't want to, for reasons such as Purple's, and more besides.

Nor should we be compelled to, to be afforded legal protection.

DementedUnicorn · 21/02/2017 14:51

What do you care if I have an opposite-sex CP? What difference does it make to you?

It's entirely offensive as the only difference is that my marriage is not allowed to be described as such and I am forced to have a civil partnership which is less than. By demanding civil partnership for heterosexual couples, my fight made even harder as it is being presented as a fair, equal alternative. It is for those whinging on about it but it isn't for me

LadyPW · 21/02/2017 14:52

It feels like they are just looking for more privilege than they already have.
It seems you don't actually understand the term 'equality', applebite.
Not special treatment.
Equality.
But heterosexual couple do have more privilege (civil partnerships not withstanding) because they can marry in church. So even if this case had been won, there still wouldn't have been equality.

Lottapianos · 21/02/2017 14:53

Demented, I don't understand your post. CPs are not 'less than' by the way, they are an alternative way to have a legal partnership with another person

RandomMess · 21/02/2017 14:59

Only the Church of England HAS to permit a "marriage", all other denominations can refuse to marry a couple.

TBH something needs to be done to eradicate this notion of common-law Wife that still exists, it is quite frankly astonishing how many people think they have legal rights if they live together especially if they have children.

DementedUnicorn · 21/02/2017 14:59

A civil partnership is less than because not everyone has the right to be married. So if you are married you can describe yourself as such and identify as a spouse/wife etc.
I don't have that choice so it is less than.

LozzaChops101 · 21/02/2017 15:00

Lottapianos - they are absolutely "less than" because they were brought in as a way of avoiding giving marriage equality to same sex couples.

KnitMeAUnicorn · 21/02/2017 15:01

DementedUnicorn, those are two separate arguments. Of course your marriage should be recognised as such in NI. Your situation sucks, and I'm sorry. But it's got nothing to do with whether I have an OS CP or not.

TiltedNewt · 21/02/2017 15:04

DementedUnicorn

It is not one or the other. Equality, true equality, means EVERYBODY being equal.

RandomMess · 21/02/2017 15:05

A civil partnership is less than because not everyone has the right to be married. So if you are married you can describe yourself as such and identify as a spouse/wife etc.
I don't have that choice so it is less than.

By the same argument not everyone has the right to legal partnered, heterosexual couples do not have that choice.

I am very sad and think it sucks that some same sex couples cannot have their marriage recognised, or that they have a faith and can't get married in church if it's what they want but I also think it is very sad and sucks that hetro couples cannot have full legal protection without getting married when they don't want to be "married" and for females become a "wife".

TiltedNewt · 21/02/2017 15:06

A civil partnership is less than because not everyone has the right to be married. So if you are married you can describe yourself as such and identify as a spouse/wife etc.
I don't have that choice so it is less than.

Urm, change CP to marriage and marriage to CP and the same applies to me...