to think apprenticeships shouldn't require 3 A Levels at A*/B?

[Freddorika]

Looking at alternatives to university for dd1. She's interested in Law and Business. I've just had two apprenticeships sent through to me by her school. The paralegal apprenticeship requires 3 A Levels at A*/B and the Business apprenticeship requires 128 UCAS points so approx ABB.

If she was predicted to get A*, A B she would be going to university!!

Having seen kids try to get into very highly sought after apprenticeships I would agree it is easier to get into many university courses. The ones I have seen are definitely worth it.

If you know the particular sector you will be able to sort out the better options!

Don't dismiss the sporting activity. Things like that can evidence all sorts of great skills and help her to stand out.

This is what I do for work and doing your research about firms and what they're looking for really, really matters.

The default is definitely university and people still talk about "the experience". I did a research piece and found some very negative and old fashioned attitudes from people who should know better (senior managers who recruit for these schemes/teachers).

The reality is that for some young people going to work and getting professional qualifications is the best option for them. Not everyone is suited to university and not everyone can afford it or should try to afford it.

mrsjayy I don't think it is impacting but it is definitely hard to fit it all in.

I think she would be interested in sports science. She has dismissed physio as so so hard to get into .

If she is doing A Levels in the following subjects many firms don't count them at all:

General studies
Media studies
Theatre studies
PE

Sounds like your dd needs to do a lot more research.

I agree with not dismissing the high-level sport. Looks great on professional CV, as well as being important in and of itself. (It would also swing me towards recommending uni to her over and above apprenticeship - she'll be able to pursue it for longer.)

I wouldn't think accountancy and equivalent would be ideal if taking examinations are her issue. Professional exams are very tough and there isn't as much time to prepare or support as many university courses.

To tack here slightly, have you worked out the issue with exams? Is it nerves? Poor technique? Not knowing the syllabus? I'd get her printing off past papers and doing oodles of them. Go through them with her and figure out where she is dropping marks. It is often because a student isn't working out what the examiners are really looking for in terms of answering the questions posed. There are good study guides covering this, and she can request extra support from staff on it too.

A lot of it boils down to demand and supply.

The demand for apprenticeships is a lot higher these days as it removes the need for uni related debt and you have more chance of "making it" in your chosen field than if you go to uni.

I worked for BAE Systems a few years back and the entry requirements for anyone wanting an apprenticeship there was high. Not ABB but solid academic results were required.

Physio is really hard 1 of dds friends couldnt get on a physiotherapy course, it is such a daunting time thinking about their future and leaving school isn't it

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut

No she is doing three facilitating subjects at A level (wish she'd chosen two and a softer one but too late now)

Yes i agree with more research

and yes Uni probalby better for the sport

Playing devil's advocate but here goes:

Saying she would do well in business is too unfocussed imo. If she is not performing in exams at this stage taking an accountancy or legal route seems unwise. Fair enough if she was working in that environment and realised it was achievable.

She is opting out of physiology because it is too competitive and yet has more interest perhaps in that area than either law or accountancy? Can she look further into routes into physio for example? There is an assistant role I believe. What I am saying is don't let her give up at the exam hurdle if it's a job she could really enjoy. There are often alternative pathways. And if she is personable and energetic but struggles with showing academic aptitude in exams then being in the workplace could be the right thing to start her career.

It's so hard I know. My child has essentially insisted on university and frankly wouldn't get taken onto an apprenticeship..

Physiotherapy not physiology obviously!

Thanks cornet

She isn't at all thinking about accountancy and tbh she knows law might not be for her

I was looking through the apprenticeships and the OP were my own thoughts. I didn't really know much about them and thought they might be a less academic way of getting into a good career but was wrong!

Shame she's not good enough at her sport to do that for a living!!

I've been a paralegal, unfortunately I didn't earn 60k. A lot of people in the legal profession don't earn even a third of what people assume. I qualified as a solicitor and there were times when I struggled to pay the rent and the bills.
I can't speak for business but the apprentice schemes in law aren't primarily there to assist those that can't get into uni. They are there for those with great grades who could go to uni, but who want to take a more financially viable route.
I was a paralegal after finishing my law degree and then the LPC at law school. I did it until dc in school and then started my solicitors training contract. I worked for several high street firms. The responsibility placed on a paralegal depends upon the firm, but I can say that in some places a fly on the wall wouldn't immediately be able to decipher amongst the staff as to who are the paralegals and who are the solicitors. Some paralegals are given a huge amount of responsibility and that, coupled with the competition for jobs, means that the standard is pushed up and firms can, and do, ask for the moon.
I really hope that your dd finds something. Some firms might be willing to consider slightly lower grades so it could be worth making enquiries and doing some work experience at the local CAB or a high street firm to show that she's keen.
There are other ways to become a paralegal though. Never a guarantee but there was an administrator at firm where I was a trainee. She had GCSEs but had left sixth form early. She temped in the admin department and was then made permanent. She was brilliant, just really helpful and on the ball. Management offered to fund her becoming a qualified paralegal. In smaller firms you often work with lawyers who have had previous careers, they've not just gone from great secondary education, to outstanding university, law school paid for by magic circle firm and become a high flying, well paid lawyer. Some of the lawyers and managers that Ive worked with are much better at seeing the potential in people who aren't straight a* students.

But the fact she loves her sport is a real positive even if it doesn't directly translate (yet) into a job. It will require grit and social skills for a start. You are right that she likely would do well in business in the right role!

(My teen is of the pleasant but underwhelmed by everything type! )

If sport is her thing could she look at teaching or coaching?

Google insight days for the sectors she's interested in and get her booked on. That will help a lot.

I've got a super bright friend who has done very well at an Estate Agency (fell into that role!) and another who has a first class degree from Cambridge who was a bank manager but had colleagues at the same level with only 4 GCSEs. Someone else I know has done brilliantly well at HMRC.

grit she does have!! i know she will get on in life but i think a lot of her energy goes on her sport and she finds it hard to see beyond it sometimes

I've been a paralegal, unfortunately I didn't earn 60k.

Sigh. Nobody said they did per year but over the life of a three year degree £60k is not unreasonable.

We see applications from paralegals at work who have often got LLB, LLM or even LPC or GDL but are working as paras because they can't get a training contract. It's tough out there.

Wow, just wow OP. You're coming across as really entitled on your DD's behalf. If not naive, and overly simplistic.

I don't know a huge amount about apprenticeships, but worked in law for over ten years. In every practice, paralegals were law graduates (not any old degree as you imply). All those I met either saw it as a short-term step, having failed to get a trainee solicitor post in order to reapply with experience, or as a long-term prospect.

Those in it for the long-term either did it to see if being a solicitor was for them (minority), or saw it as a first step to eventually becoming a trainee in that firm (apx 2-3 years on), which was carefully researched beforehand.

If your DD at this stage does not have a real interest or passion for law, where she would study for a degree if she is able, a paralegal role may not be for her. It is hard work - often preparing the groundwork for solicitors, and/or having your own caseload. In all honesty, if your DD cannot make these entry requirements a) she probably won't get a place; and b) she might find the work too challenging.

Encourage her to pursue her interests and strengths to start with. If she does go to Uni and gets a degree in a subject she is passionate about, she is bound to do well. If she wants to pursue law after that, there are conversion courses available.

If her grades are less than she hopes, encourage her. There are college, university foundation/entry courses she could try.

I apologise if I misunderstand, but your OP reads as if an apprenticeship and its grades should be second-best, or lesser than a degree. I believe they are intended to be a first-choice alternative, and this is reflected by the grades. London law firms in particular (where I worked) are fiercely competitive (and selective), and able to as the sheer number of applicants for graduate places outnumber places available by several multiples of ten.

I see what you mean movingon
op could your dd look into work experience at a local sports academy to see if coaching could be for her?

It's to allow students who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford to go to uni another route in. I did it and did a degree on day release over 5 years. Without it I would never have been able to have afforded to go to uni

Yes you might be able to get onto an apprenticeship with a degree you only needed CCC for but that's just the thing ... they've then gone on and completed a degree for 3 years and presumably gotten a good grade. The apprenticeship skips uni so the grades for a-level are higher. Plus the job market is insane - I have a freaking Masters degree and am struggling to get employed . Everywhere is the home of the academically minded now because there aren't enough jobs !

Just to add, not everyone has a law degree (obviously).

Years ago (my old gimmer days) it was possible for a bright admin to be trained through ILEX as a Legal exec. It is possible to study the exams yourself, but I believe some of their modules need to be supervised by a Legal practice. Your daughter could look at their website.

AFAIK it is unlikely these days for a young admin etc to have this happen. There will be others who post currently working in law, who will know what is happening at present.

The person I know who did a conversion course had a very good Economics degree, and several years working for the Courts in a non-grad post. Conversion courses are known to have a very high drop out rate because they are bloody hard work (and expensive). She is now head of a Legal department.

Fwiw I dont think the Op is coming over entitled, confused and annoyed maybe but not entitlled Opening up a conversation between MA vs University is a good conversation to have imo.

Entrepreneurial skills are probably the most useful to have in the long run!

My randomish job generator suggests sports agent ( in a lucrative sport!)

Also to the person who suggested EY - do not go to them, they're basically killing my DP with how much work he has to do and they expect 80% + on everything he does which is a massive ask