to think apprenticeships shouldn't require 3 A Levels at A*/B?

[Freddorika]

Looking at alternatives to university for dd1. She's interested in Law and Business. I've just had two apprenticeships sent through to me by her school. The paralegal apprenticeship requires 3 A Levels at A*/B and the Business apprenticeship requires 128 UCAS points so approx ABB.

If she was predicted to get A*, A B she would be going to university!!

You may not get the debt with a higher apprenticeship but you are effectively owned by the company who pay your fees.

What ARE you on about? It's a job. A training contract. It's not slavery.

You seem to have a very odd outlook about this swinging from overly entitled (vanity grades??!!) to dismissive of the benefits.

£60k was over three years. The same as a degree.

I know about average salaries for Higher Apprenticeships.

Yes I did read your op and all your posts thanks :)

Of course you are not owned by the company you get a degree AND work experience and a wage for 3 years it is win/win you might be tied to the company for a few years but you can leave and find another job with a boost to your CV. Dh has an old fashioned apprentiship he has progressed in the 30 years

Yeah that's a downside. I think it's a diffent issue from the grade requirements though.

Not all Higher Apprenticeships offer a degree qualification. Those that do are super competitive because they are effectively sponsored degrees plus a wage. That can be a variance of up to £120k over a three year period (London uni, fees, living costs etc vs a salaried role at a good firm).

Lots offer a professional qualification or HND. Many people go on to further study afterwards. Jaguar Landrover have some interesting case studies if anyone is interested in such things.

Trading is well paid but has NEVER been the home of the academically minded!
Do you mean trading the financial markets? Of course people doing this job needs to be academically minded. Even the trainee schemes that are for graduates attract loads of applicants, all with firsts in maths or similar subjects. And actually a degree is a bit low now; masters more the standard to get a post-grad scheme. Those on the apprenticeship route will definitely need a high apptitude for mathematics.

(Brokers - different story and not necessarily for the particularly academically minded. 'Sales' skills more important, but employers will also want to see the ability to exert oneself and put in a lot of hard work - which is best indicated by high grades.)

They're such competitive subjects that they can afford to be picky. Why wouldn't they want the "best" candidates? They're going to be spending a lot of money on them after all.

"This apprenticeship is designed to offer an introduction into law. It will combine learning and working within one of our legal teams and you will finish the two-year apprenticeship with a paralegal qualification.

Once the two-year apprenticeship has finished, there may be an opportunity to join a further apprenticeship scheme in law to continue your professional development and training."

no degree
A*, A to get onto the apprenticeship

It's frustrating. When I worked in Connexions, in a deprived rural area, we were constantly finding that the apprenticeship option that was sold as giving less academic young people a route into decent work just didn't do that. The requirements were often as high as or exceeding those for a college course. There are different types of apprenticeship and it's right that there should be- but I really wish there were more accessible routes into training and qualifications for kids who could do the jobs really well but will always struggle to get good GCSEs or A Levels.

yes alltouchedout

I've just Googled and seen those traineeships for working in financial markets. It's blown my mind a bit - what an amazing opportunity for young people who are prepared to put in the graft. It's unsurprising that the grades needed are equivalent to getting into a top university. They'll be massively oversubscribed, too.

I think if dd had those grades she would much prefer uni. But I can see how it would be an attractive option for some.

What does your daughter actually want to do? Does she know yet or is she still finding her way? (I was 25 before I knew so it's not unusual!)

There's a massive difference between being a paralegal and a trader. She may do better getting some work experience and attending insight days to give her more of an idea? That will also help her when making applications so it's a double win.

Mine will prefer uni too and it's an experience I really want them to have.

But I can see that for some young people an apprenticeship will suit their personality or circumstances more - hope your DD finds one suitable.

She doesn't want to feel like a failure and she'd love a good, well-paid career!

But she struggles with exams and although her coursework is really good, her exam results don't reflect it. She is desperate to get good A level results and is working unbelievably hard to do so but just doesn't seem to get the results. She's great with people, has loads of common sense and confidence. She'd do well in business.

I can't speak for that specific scheme but looking at my previous employer - they offer higher level apprenticeship and grad schemes. The ucas point requirements are the same for both - so getting lower a level grades and going to uni wouldn't make you eligible to work for them even if you got the required 2.1.

I think for the higher level apprenticeships that's fairly normal and appropriate.

It was for me. I was already living independently after A levels and didn't want to leave the area. I wanted to work and wasnt sure what degree I would have wanted to do anyway.

I was also, frankly, disillusioned after seeing so many friends come back from uni with tales of no jobs and no way to use their degree and going back to work in their home-for-the-summer jobs on a full time basis. Some have gone on to have great careers since, mind.

But yeah, that's why higher level apprenticeships are a good thing for some kids. Was great for me.

Does she have any idea what she wants to do rather than well paid career what is she enthusiastic about just making lots of money isn't a career choice imo the apprentiships that she looked at are worlds apart.your dd is setting herself up for a fall if she says at her age she doesnt want tobe a failure she might need a bit of help lowering her expectations of what she is capable of iyswim.

I did an advanced apprenticeship and flunked all my a-levels, I got on the course with my gcses alone. I'm now a fully qualified engineer with no uni debts so not all apprenticeships have such high entry requirements.

Then have a look at professional services. They all offer school leaver programmes and most have got rid of minimum academic requirements in a push to increase social mobility. Applicants do need to be able to pass professional exams though and that's why many have hung on to the academic requirements.

Most big firms will have regional offices and they often have lower requirements than the London offices where competition is fierce.

Check out the following who all have dedicated webpages and blogs about their schemes and requirements:

EY
Deloitte
Grant Thornton
BDO
Mazars

PWC and KMPG along with Deloitte and EY are big 4 firms and they used to do more sponsored degrees but may have changed their schemes - they evolve all the time - so are worth a look too.

I would also look at Financial Services - Barclays used to do a great scheme. Also any regional accountancy or law firms are worth a look.

But I cannot stress enough that if she does not pass the exams they will let her go.

She also has to be a fantastic all round candidate who has demonstrated some commitment to her career by seeking out relevant work experience opportunities and positions of both leadership and responsibility.

These scheme don't want someone who is ok or even very good - they are looking for exceptional candidates.

If she's not all that academically capable she would most likely struggle with a paralegal apprenticeship, but she should definitely try and get some work experience, even if it's unpaid, as this would tip the balance for me as an employer (in law). My current pupil started out as a receptionist at my firm, moved to being a typing secretary and then to a personal secretary. We've paid her fees for her to take her professional exams now. If your daughter actually wants a career in law she could consider a business course that needs lower grades, or working her way up.

Thanks all this has been very thought provoking. She's only year 12 so she has a year or so to get her grades up which is what I am going to get her to concentrate on.

She also plays a sport to a very high level which is impacting on things I think. Time to make some decisions

DD can get onto a law degree with Cs and D's and okay unis. I've got a 2:1 LLB QLD (batchelor of laws) from a modern uni ranking in the top fifty, like not redbrick but not a university college either. I went straight from school, and just graduated, so the infos fairly up to date. So if you think DD would like uni then she should and can go.

Is her sport impacting on school ? Im not sure what year 12 is im assuming it is 15/16 she has time yet but her career really needs to be her decision really would she be interested in sport science or physiotherapy something like that.

Just checking, pwc is 112 new ucas points for audit which is roughly bbc. Their grad scheme doesn't state it on their website but I'm fairly sure they do have a ucas requirement.

For deloitte it's 260 in old ucas points vs 300 for the grad scheme. So it is a bit lower.

I'd agree they're worth considering btw