Nursery and child left alone in toilet

[maybethedayafter]

This isn't so much an AIBU but I didn't know where else to put it.

I went to pick DD up from nursery today with FIL. Her room adjoins another room and the toilets which are in the middle can be accessed from both rooms (although I didn't know this). I went in to the room but realised there was no one in there as they were out in the garden so I grabbed DDs bag to go down to meet her. As we were leaving there was a girl who came out of the toilet, in to the empty room with her trousers and knickers down looking a bit lost. I popped in to the room next door and spoke to a member of staff to let her know that there was a child in the unsupervised room and she looked in, said "oh yes, she's from our room, the toilets are joined" and just went back to her room. The little girl was still standing there with everything on show looking bewildered.

I know that every child can't be supervised when they go to the toilet, but surely when it's pointed out that there's a half dressed child going the wrong way the staff member should have at least gone to check if she was okay. It's not like anyone can walk in as you need a passcode to access the building but it's happened before that someone leaving has held the door for me to go in and I didn't see a staff member between entering the building and seeing this little girl. It does raise a slight concern about security. So, AIBU?

This child wasn't crying, asking for help, or old enough to be in a swimming pool changing room alone.

I'm surprised at that navy. I work in a school, I'm fully dbs checked and can be left 1-1 with children but I'm not allowed to do those things. We must fetch a teacher/TA if the children require that sort of help. Anyone who isn't dbs cleared has to supervised by a member of staff at all times. No one would be left alone with the kids if they aren't dbs cleared, let alone be in the toilets with them.

Safeguarding is taken extremely seriously. A nursery/school can instantly lose its outstanding/good status if they fail in their safeguarding procedures.

It's not a case of whether or not the OP should have physically helped the girl herself, it's that she never should have been in that position in the first place. Parents should not be given unsupervised access to any child on the premises.

At the small village pre-school I work at we have just two rooms that don't even have a door between them. One of these rooms has the toilets just off it. A child is never allowed to go alone - even at 4-nearly-5. A member of staff has to at least be stood in the space between the two rooms so the child in the bathroom can be seen and heard. This is to make sure they flush and wash their hands. It's to make sure that they're not left alone to struggle. It's to make sure they have someone to to wipe their bum if they need it. It's to make sure someone is there to change them if they've had an accident and been too embarrassed to say anything. It's so they know someone is near - what's "just in the next room" to us can feel like a hundred miles to a little 3yr old who can't shout loud enough over the din of 20 other kids. It's because it's a kind thing to do. And to keep them safe from any unforeseen dangers - however unlikely!

So no, YANBU and should probably chat to the manager about the nursery's toileting procedures.

I'm astonished a helper on a trip is allowed by the school to do such things. That's shocking. I work in education. It simply shouldn't have happened.

I wonder if the staff member was unable to leave the other children.
If they were doing a woodwork activity, for example, with nails, hammers etc.. I can understand she would not leave them to see to a child who didn't seem distressed.
You have to make a quick decision at such times and she may not have clocked that the child needed help.

I'd be more concerned about the random person wandering about (sorry Op )

It's actually made me quite depressed that so many people wouldn't help a small child pull up her clothes.

Reminds me of a social experiment on tv a couple of years back where they placed a child in a shopping centre so they looked alone and lost and something like 400 people just walked past before someone stopped to help her.

Makes me so sad to think no one might help my child in this situation.

I'm not allowed too Navy. Perhaps at that point it comes down to individual school policy? I'm not sure.

A lost child is hardly comparable to a child in a nursery with the teacher next door.

A child on their own in a shopping centre - you would stay with the child, asking a member of staff to put a message over the tannoy and follow the policy that the shopping centre would have in place for lost children.

The op has done the same thing here - sensibly asked a member of staff to help the child, as she doesn't know whether physically helping the child might upset them, and being aware that being on our own with a half naked child in a setting would be going against the safeguarding policy the setting would have in place.

I am surprised you are allowed to assist in intimate care navy - have you had to sign off that you have read and understood the safeguarding policy f the school?

Maybe I've just lived outside the UK too long but I'm not seeing the issue here. Surely just a simple "Pull up your knickers dear" would have sufficed. They are learning toilet independence at that age which means occasionally they're going to forget to pull up their pants as they come out. I've witnessed it a few times in DD's daycare, the teacher catches up to the child to help them or the child pulls up their pants themselves while walking back to the group. If the child was crying that would be a different matter but the OP doesn't state that. I expect the girl just momentarily forgot which door she was supposed to go out of.

What OP should have done is a bit of a red herring.... Nursery has some serious flaws in safeguarding. A code entry can easily be copied or people could tailgate. They need to know who's in the building and where.

Btw where did it say the little girl was distressed about not having her pants up? My dd often has trousers at half mast (blooming hipster cut) and I tell them to pull them up but she's 4 and doesn't really get self conscious about stuff like that.

Navy I'm massively surprised by that as well. Any interaction like that, in any school I've ever worked in, has meant that two members of staff/helpers have to be in the room/toilet. That's an incredibly vulnerable position to be put in (for you as much as the child).

At the playscheme and afterschool care adults are not even allowed in the toilets that the children use. If for any reason they have to go in (unwell child, kids playing in there etc) then they must go in in a pair, and that's something that safeguarding and OFSTED insist on.

It isn't a blanket policy that 2 members of staff have to attend to a child with intimate care needs.

So I was in public toilets a while ago (national trust property, not totally public) and noticed a little girl, maybe 3/4 siting in the loo with the door open. No parent around.

She was still there when I went out and saw a worried looking Dad. I asked if that was his daughter and if he wanted me to assist. He said yes, do I did. It turned out she'd done a poo and needed help wiping her bum. So I did. I then helped her wash her hands and return her to her Dad. I told him she'd done a poo and I'd helped her wipe her bum.

(Rather not do it, but could hardly leave her with shitty bum).

So was this inappropriate? I don't know. Maybe I should have requested permission to wipe? Surely this is far more intimate than quickly pulling pants up?

Well personally I'd have told the dad to go in and help her out!

But that is a slightly different situation to the safeguarding issues in a nursery.

I wouldn't have wiped a strange child's bottom - I'd have told the dad he needed to come in and help her and pointed out to him that 3 year olds who cannot toilet themselves should not be going into public toilets alone.

No pertunia that wasn't inappropriate. It was normal behaviour of a concerned adult helping a child.

Considering most of the MNers on this thread today would of just left her there and walked off I'd say her and her dad were lucky you were there

I didn't say I would have walked off and left her, I would have said to the dad to come and help her, you can't send a 3 year old to the toilet on their own!

I agree with Eden and Hazey. I wouldn't have left the child without intervention, I would have told the dad that she needs his help. I'd have offered to tell people that he's in the ladies on the way in if he felt self conscious (although he should have just taken her into the men's).

You asked the dad first if you should assist Pertunia so sounds right to me, although don't know why he didn't take her into the men's with him.