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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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21
BiglyBadgers · 19/02/2017 12:27

Here the buzzfeed article. I think the claims of super AI stuff and its impact in the election are overstated to say the least
www.buzzfeed.com/kendalltaggart/the-truth-about-the-trump-data-team-that-people-are-freaking?utm_term=.lvBD2zjG#.mgQZ1y8G

MsHooliesCardigan · 19/02/2017 12:27

Oh I see. The shocking thing is that I could genuinely imagine him writing the first bit.

PausingFlatly · 19/02/2017 12:31

Masterclass in communication? Masterclass in content-free emotional manipulation, more like.

The words make no sense, so people listen to the music.

BiglyBadgers · 19/02/2017 12:31

Just to be clear I do believe there is fake news galore, bots and paid for trolls. I just am not convinced tech is as advanced as people seem to think when it comes to this AI targeting stuff. There is no actual evidence that CA did it that I can see. Just lots of PR and extrapolation. Good in theory, but not proved in practice.

Roussette · 19/02/2017 12:36

This is what he's saying about appointing a new security advisor.

Trump told reporters on Air Force One Saturday, “many, many that want the job.’’ Trump said “I’ve been thinking about someone for the last three or four days, we’ll see what happens. I’m meeting with that person. They’re all good, they’re all great people.’

Elsewhere it says they can't find anyone!

30,000 were expected at the Rally. Police have confirmed 9,000 attended. That's a shortfall of 21,000. GOOD!!!

Some idiot on FB put that there were 200,000. He ws quickly pulled up on that!

PausingFlatly · 19/02/2017 12:36

More clickable direct link to Thunderwing's article: www.indy100.com/article/donald-trump-misinformation-journalist-nbc-fake-news-president-united-states-latest-7585146

(It's the moment in the press conference when NBC reporter Peter Alexander calls Trump out on "306 is the biggest margin".)

Roussette · 19/02/2017 12:39

Should anyone want it here is a transcript of last night's Rally

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 12:41

I found that Cambridge Analytics stuff very very interesting, peace.

Do you think they've realised the big flaw in their 'programs' yet, though?Grin

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 12:42

Sorry. Analytica.

Autocorrect - 1
cozie - 0.

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 12:45

My Orwells are downstairs, nice. I'll find that, though.

Roussette · 19/02/2017 12:46

A bit of light relief.
I know it's a bit late but this made me laugh. This was put up in New York on two different buildings for Valentines Day...

Ami. Making Mumsnet great again. Trump cont
peaceout · 19/02/2017 12:46

I just am not convinced tech is as advanced as people seem to think when it comes to this AI targeting stuff

Most people don't appreciate the potential of massive multiple interlinked data sets

NotDavidTennant · 19/02/2017 12:49

You have to be deeply questioning of an article that quotes something like this as remotely factual:

According to Zurich’s Das Magazine, which profiled Kosinski in late 2016, “with a mere ten ‘likes’ as input his model could appraise a person’s character better than an average coworker. With seventy, it could ‘know’ a subject better than a friend; with 150 likes, better than their parents. With 300 likes, Kosinski’s machine could predict a subject’s behavior better than their partner. With even more likes it could exceed what a person thinks they know about themselves.”

BiglyBadgers · 19/02/2017 12:55

But they also tend to be over optimistic about the use of those data sets and the complexity of people. I work in a related digital field and have had a lot of marketing and data companies try and sell me and my organisation things like this that make big claims, but she you start asking questions they often don't have the evidence to support their effectiveness. Credible behavioural insights teams (such as the UK govs nudge unit) spend a lot of time and energy making and testing small changes to influence people's behaviour. It is fascinating and I have used some of the ideas on my own work can work, but it is slow and not nearly as exciting or sexy as CA try to make it out to be.

Lweji · 19/02/2017 13:03

Chelsea Clinton ‏*@ChelseaClinton* 11 min
What happened in Sweden Friday night? Did they catch the Bowling Green Massacre perpetrators?

Grin
cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 13:04

Could someone remind me? What is the latest on the 'Russian connection'? Smile

PausingFlatly · 19/02/2017 13:10

Sorry, still catching up today. Here's an extract from the Washington Post article of 23 Jan, that Destinysdaughter linked at Sun 19-Feb-17 00:05:35, about dissing the media: www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/01/23/dear-media-the-trump-white-house-has-total-contempt-for-you-time-to-react-accordingly/?utm_term=.e2ac55e79aba

For many months during the campaign, Trump not only told lies to a degree that was unprecedented in volume and egregiousness; his staff also mostly refused to engage fact checkers at all when they questioned his claims, showing he felt no obligation whatsoever to back them up. And then, even when they were widely debunked, he simply kept on repeating them. Then, and now, this was, and is, an assertion of the power to declare what the truth is regardless of what is empirically, demonstrably true.

Anyone who is not considering the possibility that this may be an outgrowth of Trump’s well-established authoritarian streak is missing what may be happening here. As libertarian writer Jacob Levy has written, Trump may be experimenting with a time-tested tactic, in which a leader “with authoritarian tendencies” will regularly lie in order to get others to internalize his lies, as “a way to demonstrate and strengthen his power over them.”

This is exactly what Michael D'Antonio and the other journalist discussing the Trump Tapes described happening at the Trump household/business level.

And it's very familiar to me because it's exactly how I've seen a lot of authoritarians operate in Africa. The degree to which people would tell blatant untruths and expect that the facts we could both see in front of us would be overridden by "Because I say so", used to break my mind. The technique relies on interpersonal power relationships being seen as more important than physical experience of the world. The opposite of science, in fact.

I'm sure gaslighting is universal, but I suspect cultures in which interpersonal relationships are highly prioritised are particularly vulnerable to this.

I've had people look me in the eye and say, "it isn't raining" as the drops are falling on us both. So I was ShockGrin when Trump made exactly that claim about the inauguration.

BiglyBadgers · 19/02/2017 13:11

I think the FBI have 3 investigations going on about the Russian connections cozie. Will be interesting to see if they yield anything.

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 13:13

Thanks, Bigly.

Lweji · 19/02/2017 13:13

What is sad is that previously dictators could get away with lies because it was difficult to check them. In some countries today people still have poor access to information.

But in the US, it seems more an issue with information overload, or where people get their information from.

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 13:15

I suspect that there's a very large element of 'predisposition' as well, Lweji. Of all kinds.

CussingQuim · 19/02/2017 13:16

Former prime minister of Sweden Grin

Ami. Making Mumsnet great again. Trump cont
PausingFlatly · 19/02/2017 13:16

I'm just cogitating aloud here, but OK, we understand that Trump does this. He's always going to do that, it's him.

But it only works because there are people who want to play their side of the interaction. Who choose to surrender their own experience to what he authorises The Truth to be.

Why? (I suspect the answer is what PP described above re Billy Graham - "I'm the daddy, and I'm going to fight for you")

What would liberate Believers from their thrall to Trump Truth?

cozietoesie · 19/02/2017 13:18

Some of them? Nothing, I suspect - and those are the ones he likes to surround himself with.

The others? Two things.

CussingQuim · 19/02/2017 13:22

Politifact fact check on the rally.