To think that we don't need a London Modest Fashion week??

[Cherrysoup]

Given that we're not living in the Victorian era?

I think the word "modest" is loaded and nobody would ever tell a man what he was wearing was immodest

Exactly. Compliant is more accurate than modest.

But scratch the surface and there is always judgement and a general view on how women should dress whether it's "sexy" or "modest"/ It's all nonsense. Men don't have to put up with this shit so why do we perpetuate it?

Of course. But attacking the women who have been chronically underepresented the minute they come out and start something for themselves instead of the industry as a whole is both counter productive and offensive.

Exactly. Compliant is more accurate than modest

This is what I'm talking about. You're telling half the worlds women that even though they say its their choice, you know better. Ethnocentric arrogance.

Perhaps you could tell women what they should call their clothing style that you would approve of?

Because the word is loaded? And I have not so far seen anyone come up with an explanation that makes any sense of why one would want or need to describe their clothing as "modest"?

And as a descriptor it's pretty useless. If I were describing the clothes on the site linked I would say dramatic, flowing, flamboyant, Eastern inspired.

Ahhh, but dramatic, flowing, flamboyant, Eastern inspired carries no judgement on the wearer's morals and values. Unlike modest.

Exactly. Compliant is more accurate than modest

This is what I'm talking about. You're telling half the worlds women that even though they say its their choice, you know better. Ethnocentric arrogance

I agree with your comment Joan I thought much of the clothes on that site were beautiful.

Depends what you mean by modest. I dress "modestly" in that my usual wardrobe is leggings, tunics, jeans, jumpers, shirts. I don't like showing off my wobbly upper arms and after three kids and a hysterectomy, nobody needs to see my midriff. I would look frankly ridiculous dressed like Little Mix.

So I interpret modest as "anything someone over 30 would feel comfortable in".

Modest is a loaded word. It equals 'good girl' to me.

Back back in the day, like the late 70s, the Guardian women's page used to do some feminist fashion which sounded very like sensible fasion week. The emphasis was on craftswomanship and things that were beautiful and lasting. I believe Fair Isle jumpers featured heavily, but then it was the 70s.

I would actually associate Modest clothing with Orthodox Judaism. There is an intrinsic clash for me between the concept of Modesty and the concept of a fashion show, just as I was a bit gobsmacked to see an Islamic beauty pageant on telly a while back. All these things though whether modest or Not Modest share the idea of women looking right or wrong and that being women's primary purpose.

I wouldn't ever stop anyone having any kind of fashion show but no harm in at least articulating some thoughts about it.

Still mystified as to why you would describe your clothes as "modest"

I don't show cleavage, I don't wear short skirts (unless on holiday), I don't wear very clingy clothes (unless going out). I don't 'dress to impress'.
I am v modest, so what I wear ought to really not matter one jot.
And very I behave modestly or not, ought to also be my business and not anybody else's.

Yes, the featured clothes are beautiful, as are the models.

Ahhh, but dramatic, flowing, flamboyant, Eastern inspired carries no judgement on the wearer's morals and values. Unlike modest

Eh ? Because being flamboyant and dramatic has nothing to do with morals.

Are you seriously saying "modest " in this sense is not a moral judgement?

Dreadful word and I have been in Iran. I have seen how much effort women who have to please men have to put into looks, plastic surgery and the like. Many of these modest cultures have women having to please men via their looks so much more than you would think uner all those awful robes.

I wonder if these shows will show the tummy - as traditional Indian clothes often did/do for example?

I would not ban shows like this though as banning just makes people support them more. I would show them up for the sexist controlling awfulness that the modest clothes represent.

I would actually associate Modest clothing with Orthodox Judaism

Who aren't represented at London Modest Fashion Week.

Tinfoil, yes, that's 'modest', not 'Modest'

And of course it is a loaded word.

My main experience with Modest dressing relates to some of the extremely religious communities in the American bible belt btw, more Christian than Christ himself.

Amazed that none of you can see the problem with all these comments. Are you so unable to look at anything from someone elses point of view?

English is not the only language in the world, modest does not just mean what YOU think it means, and other women's choices are just as valid as yours, even when you think those women are lesser than you and can't think for themselves.

Are you seriously saying "modest " in this sense is not a moral judgement?

I think you have misunderstood me, I do think classing clothing as modest is inferring that anything else is immodest and therefore bad / unacceptable.

So I interpret modest as "anything someone over 30 would feel comfortable in".

Sorry, I still find it incomprehensible that anyone thinks of clothes in that way.

even when you think those women are lesser than you and can't think for themselves.

Oh, ffs, nobody has implied that, yet you keep insisting on it.

They most certainly have implied it, you just can't see it.

But attacking the women who have been chronically underepresented the minute they come out and start something for themselves instead of the industry as a whole is both counter productive and offensive.

Don't fucking insult me Joan. I've never attacked any woman Muslim or otherwise for wearing whatever they want to wear.

People generally wear what is, as Pacific pointed out, is considered culturally appropriate and there is nothing wrong with that. AT ALL.

But let's not all pretend that cultures come without values, norms and judgements which provide the basis for people's fashion choices.

Because if they didn't we'd all be dressed in a variety of ways across different cultures but we're not are we?

And please be clever enough to grasp the difference between critiquing the norms and values of a culture (be it our own or someone else's) and criticising the individuals within said culture.

No one here is unaware of the problems of erasure that face Muslim women due to these "modesty" issues, whether it's French schoolgirls being denied an education or women speakers' faces erased from a publicity brochure for "modesty" reasons. So stop caricaturising our arguments as racist.

I think you have misunderstood me, I do think classing clothing as modest is inferring that anything else is immodest and therefore bad / unacceptable

Sorry; nuances get lost on the Internet. The clothes on that site were beautiful and very wearable - such a pity to use such an awful descriptor.

Western women have plastic surgery for men it isn't just iranian women who do it and these women who say oh i do it for me are imo kidding themselves

English is not the only language in the world, modest does not just mean what YOU think it means

Definition from Oxford dictionaries includes;
(of a woman) dressing or behaving so as to avoid impropriety or indecency, especially to avoid attracting sexual attention.
‘the modest women wear long-sleeved dresses and all but cover their faces’

So actually modest means exactly what I think it means.

As a lifelong feminist I am all for choice, I want a society and fashion market where girls and women (and men for that matter) are free and able to dress in whatever way works for them.

I am reasonably attractive, I think, and have always hated having to dress in a revealing way in order to fit in with my peer group. I like smart, sophisticated and easy to wear clothes and want to express my femininity and personality through clothes that make me feel empowered.

I don't feel empowered wearing crop tops, deep cut v neck tops or mini dresses with no tights or leggings as I feel I can't move as freely and yes, because I feel I draw unwanted attention. I welcome modest fashion week for this reason as the standard fashion week has absolutely nothing to offer to me. My dd went there last week and loved it though, she has a completely different style to me and loves experimenting and wearing more revealing items. Each to their own.