To think that we don't need a London Modest Fashion week??

[Cherrysoup]

Given that we're not living in the Victorian era?

OK, but what does this have to do with the concept of modesty

Because that is what the word modest has come to mean when pertaining to clothing. That was the answer to your question! Are you confused?

I think my main issue with this is that a certain concept of 'modest' clothing implies modest i.e. approved behaviour by the woman. And, by implication, the opposite: if a woman does not dress in an approved way, she is seen as 'immodest' whatever her behaviour is actually like.
I hate all that, detest it.
Letting it all hang out is not my style and never has been, but I reserve the right to fight for anybody's right to do it if they so wish
I do think that young women are under huge pressure to comply with ridiculous, revealing fashions also, which is also wrong.

It is women being judged by their appearance, either way. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I was watching the Baftas and there was dresses that were just too revealing imo 2 straps of fabric just about covering nipples i just thought who made those why is she wearing it and isnt it to cold for it.not every woman wants to go out dressed like that

I have yet to come across the opposite, women telling men what they are 'allowed' to wear and what not

Very common. I know plenty of middle aged men who wear what their wives tell them to.

It's seriously offensive when any discussion on muslim/religious womens clothes comes right away to "they are forced into by men". Do you see how insulting that is to millions of women who made their own choices? It says "you're all idiots, you can't think for yourself". And you could just as easily say that all the women in short skirts and high heels etc are just forced into that by the sexual expectations of men in your society.

It means clothing which covers up much of the body and is not tight, low cut etc. It's not a value judgement on people who don't dress that way

It's a hugely loaded term.

I dress modestly but not Modestly I'm still none the wiser as to why you would use that term.

It's a tie in to the London Muslim Lifestyle Show. Given how much money London Fashion generates I'm not surprised they're hoping for a second bite of the cherry

Some of the clothes on that site are beautiful and without the close wrapped headscarf would not even be noticed as out of place on a mainstream catwalk, particularly in evening wear section. Not sure why so many of you think mainstream London fashion week is all about skimpy and revealing clothes.

There are quite a lot of things on that site I would be happy to wear (some are a bit Stepfordy) without the headscarves but I still would not say I was dressing "modestly". If anything many of them are quite dramatic and flamboyant.

Letting it all hang out is not my style and never has been, but I reserve the right to fight for anybody's right to do it if they so wish

But not for their right to wear hijab and long sleeves. Nice.

I would totally be glued to sensible fashion week

I'm yet to see anyone wearing "2 straps of fabric just about covering nipples" in Sainsburys.

Even if I did, that's up to them how they dress just don't label it immodest on the basis that modest dress is in someway superior.

Yes totally what you said pacific the expectations of what women should wear is just plain daft

So why should anyone have to justify their desire for fashion that reflects their life and clothing choices?

Is anyone saying that? I'm certainly not. My objection is the unquestioning use of the loaded and judgemental term "modest"

You need to get away from the idea that calling some clothing modest means you are labelling other people (you) immodest. Firstly its not all about you, and secondly, not everything has an opposite. Some people wear sexy clothing, that doesn't yours is unattractive or drab.

"Rational" dress week would be a good start.

So clothes are worn because they are comfortable and practical. Looking good can be a consideration of course but it should never be allowed to override comfort and practicality. No deforming your feet in high heels or freezing your arse off in a mini skirt in winter.

And "modesty" judgements are thrown out the window. A woman skipping naked down the street is no less modest than a woman covered from head to toe. Because modesty is in the mind and has fuck all to do with external appearances.

Just like picking out veggies. Dress for the seasons.

Very common. I know plenty of middle aged men who wear what their wives tell them to

Yes, on an individual basis.
And because oh so many men are happy to letting their wives/partners being their mothers

Actually I think we need to do away with London Fashion Week altogether as the fashion industry is a total waste of time.

You have obviously never tried to get a hotel in London in fashion week. It generates a massive amount of trade and tourism revenue

Is anyone saying that? I'm certainly not. My objection is the unquestioning use of the loaded and judgemental term "modest"

But who are you to question what word other people use to describe their clothing and make it about you and your ideas? It's YOU choosing to see it as loaded and judgemental, not the people using it.

But not for their right to wear hijab and long sleeves. Nice

Stop making things up. Joan That has not been said. What I and others are questioning is the description of clothing as "modest"

Nice Muslim bashing thread - lovely

Thanks OP some Facism to start my day

Well i meant on a night out obviously you dont see many women wafting down the cheese aisle. These actresses are dressed by designers really they don't buy their own clothes and dresses with 2 panels covering breasts is just drawing attention to the dress not the actual woman in the dress

But who are you to question what word other people use to describe their clothing and make it about you and your ideas? It's YOU choosing to see it as loaded and judgemental, not the people using it.

Yeah right. Totally not a judgemental term. And unicorns are real too.

I absolutely fight for their right to wear a hijab!
Don't put words in my mouth.
And I have no issue with individual women wearing whatever is appropriate in their cultural context.
I do have an issue with pretending that 'choices' are made in a vacuum.

The way I dress is a 'choice' made within a cultural context.
I use 'Modest' with a capital 'M' to imply what is generally accepted by various cultures as complying with appropriate dressing. 'modest' with a lower case 'm' is less prescriptive.

Some African cultures attribute sexiness to the ankles (of women, natch ), breasts are entirely not-sexual in a day to day context. So, v different dress codes apply there.

You need to get away from the idea that calling some clothing modest means you are labelling other people (you) immodest. Firstly its not all about you, and secondly, not everything has an opposite. Some people wear sexy clothing, that doesn't yours is unattractive or drab.

But scratch the surface and there is always judgement and a general view on how women should dress whether it's "sexy" or "modest".

I've been told by both men and women that I should dress more "sexily". One mad friend even grabbed my boobs and tried to shove them into a pink frilly bikini top in an effort to get me to show off my "assets"!!

It's all nonsense. Men don't have to put up with this shit so why do we perpetuate it?

stopfucking, really?!

What I and others are questioning is the description of clothing as "modest"

Yes, you are taking something that other people use to describe their style of clothing and making it about you and your ideas and your value judgements. Perhaps you could tell women what they should call their clothing style that you would approve of?

And not making anything up, RTFT.

I know plenty of middle aged men who wear what their wives tell them to

Because they're too lazy/disinterested to shop for themselves.

Big difference to patriarchal societies telling women what to wear.

I think the word "modest" is loaded and nobody would ever tell a man what he was wearing was immodest.

I use 'Modest' with a capital 'M' to imply what is generally accepted by various cultures as complying with appropriate dressing. 'modest' with a lower case 'm' is less prescriptive

Still mystified as to why you would describe your clothes as "modest"