Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that we don't need a London Modest Fashion week??

445 replies

Cherrysoup · 18/02/2017 09:42

Given that we're not living in the Victorian era?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
venusinscorpio · 19/02/2017 00:31

It's a word which has a meaning which is well known. The use or it is loaded when it comes to women's dress.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/02/2017 00:31

I don't think Chipping and I are in any disagreement over the definitions of "modest" and "immodest" and how inappropriate these terms are in relation to women's clothes.

venusinscorpio · 19/02/2017 00:31

*use of it

muhajaba · 19/02/2017 00:31

chipped I was responding to They are not "modest" but your definition means you probably think by saying that I'm wearing tight mini dresses and low cut tops
English is my third language, I'm sure you knew what I meant, but thanks for correcting me anyway.

Chippednailvarnishing · 19/02/2017 00:34

That's the point Chloe by saying a woman's clothed are modest or immodest you are casting moral judgement on the woman.

By using the word you are judging as definitions don't change. Unless as Lass rightly points out, you change the accepted definition to suit yourself each time you use it Hmm

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/02/2017 00:36

English is my third language, I'm sure you knew what I meant, but thanks for correcting me anyway

Not sure what your point is there or to what you are referring. I stand by my point that your calling women's clothes modest and immodest is extremely offensive. The dictionary definition has been pointed out to you several times.

Chloe84 · 19/02/2017 00:40

Lass

I damn well don't judge a woman by how much or how little clothes she is wearing.

That's laudable, but not really possible. What if someone (male or female) walked around in their underwear? I'd probably look and then forget it, but I would have made a split second, unconscious judgement.

You yourself thought immodest clothing could mean 'tight mini dresses and low cut tops' to muhajaba. She didn't say that. We all have an idea of what 'modest' means.

The synonyms of 'modest' are 'simple', 'plain', 'demure'. Maybe London Demure Fashion Week would have been better for those objecting to 'Modest'?

Chippednailvarnishing · 19/02/2017 00:40

If you speak three languages, I'm surprised that you can't understand why using words that have a defined association with morality is unacceptable in relation to someone's clothing.

Imagine if people just change the meaning of words to suit themselves. How ridiculous.

muhajaba · 19/02/2017 00:42

Lass I was referring to chipped correcting my usage of the word definition. Interesting that I was corrected but not you Smile

Chippednailvarnishing · 19/02/2017 00:43

Chloe stop being disingenuous and just post the full Oxford dictionaries definitions of modest and immodest.

And your argument is let down by the fact that the clothes featured on their website weren't plain, simple or demure.

venusinscorpio · 19/02/2017 00:44

Chloe, you have consistently missed the point.

Chippednailvarnishing · 19/02/2017 00:45

Compliant is far more accurate than modest.

muhajaba · 19/02/2017 00:46

Chloe84 I was thinking about the word conservative instead of modest, perhaps it sounds dull though, I wonder if it would enrage people less

Chloe84 · 19/02/2017 00:56

I think they have already been posted, chipped

Look, I do see the points that are being made and I even agree to an extent. Modesty is about simplicity and alot of the clothes are not simple. I don't agree that 'modest' in this context is a judgement though. It's an expedient way of communicating what the event is about.

As I've said before, I'm not sure what else the organisers could have called the event, to appeal to Muslims and non-Muslims.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/02/2017 00:58

What if someone (male or female) walked around in their underwear? I'd probably look and then forget it, but I would have made a split second, unconscious judgement

Really? That would be your reaction? I would probably think they had mental health issues and needed help.

You yourself thought immodest clothing could mean 'tight mini dresses and low cut tops' to muhajaba. She didn't say that. We all have an idea of what 'modest' means

The only "idea" I have of what modest means can be found in any good dictionary.

The terms are inappropriate to use in relation to women's clothing unless one wants to cast moral aspersions.

BillSykesDog · 19/02/2017 00:58

Conservative is a better word from my point of view yes, because I don't think that implies any sort of value judgement against those who choose not to wear it. Because the opposite of conservative is progressive, innovative etc.

But I think that is part of the reason why something such as this show and others who do choose to wear that type of clothing don't use the term conservative and don't like it - because they feel that it makes a value judgement on them as stuck in the past, old fashioned, not changing with the times and moving forwards.

So, yes, from my point of view a better word, but not one I imagine any marketeers are going to adopt with enthusiasm any time soon.

Chloe84 · 19/02/2017 00:59

Ha, yes muhajaba conservative sounds a bit dull - and political!

Maybe 'demure' would have been better.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/02/2017 01:10

Chloe the antonym of modest is

(of a woman) dressing or behaving so as to avoid impropriety or indecency, especially to avoid attracting sexual attention
(of clothing) not revealing or emphasizing a person's figure
antonyms: immodest, flamboyant

Many of those clothes were actually flamboyant.

"Conservative" would be better, except many of them were not conservative.

Islamic Fashion Week?

GrommitsEarsHurt · 19/02/2017 01:23

I really like a lot of the clothes. As a bigger lady, I find it hard to find nice clothes that cover my wobbly bits, without me ending up looking like a load of ferrets fighting in a bag.

If the clothes were called Muslimah fashion, I would think that maybe I shouldn't buy it because I would be wary of cultural appropriation. I don't mind so much the idea of Modest fashion, though agree that it isn't a term ever used for men (even wearing mankinis).

So I'll opt for Realistic Fashion Week - Clothes For Mere Mortals.

As an aside, isn't it possible to dress immodestly though e.g. If you went out wearing knickers and two plasters over nipples, and had an amazing figure, I'd think the lady wasn't being very modest about how lovely her figure was, as she would be showing it off? Confused!

circleSoflife · 19/02/2017 07:45

I agree Islamic fashion week is a suitable name seeing that their primary market is Muslim women.

To all who say the term 'modest' is unproblematic, how do you feel about a teenage girl who is going about her day in the summer whilst wearing a weather appropriate t-shirt, shorts and sandals being categorised as immodest? She would be in the context of religious female modesty as she is showing her legs, neck and arms.

As many pp have said none of the depicted garments are in actual fact modest in the sense that they are not demure, and they are more than likely to attracting attention, some were positively flamboyant. I rather liked the style though.

Covering ones body is a fairly recent global islamic trend and, if I remember right, is a reflection of Wahabi influence over muslim communities world-wide. 50 years ago few Muslim women in the world covered up their body parts unless they lived in extremely hot places where this made sense and men wore similar garments protecting themselves against heat and sun.

Now covering up has become a trend and a political message, especially in Western societies, and act of rebellion for some. Neither 'trend' nor wearing ones political message on ones sleeve, so to speak, can be described as 'modest'.

Saying all that, form the perspective of the organisers 'modesty' is one of the values they seek to sell.

Using established marketing methods selling 'modesty' is just as dishonest as selling 'sexual desirability' is for LFW. It's two sides of the same medal. It draws on the age old Madonna whore myth. Of course the other commodity the organisers are selling is 'identity', a sense of belonging to a defined and morally superior group.

EnormousTiger · 19/02/2017 07:52

Even conservative is a little inaccurate. My ancestors ran around with nothing on free and wild until the ice age hit so my argument would be traditionally women could bare what they liked until men started interfering even in the myth of the Garden of Eden story suddenly Adam and Eve become aware they are "naked" and start covering up. Men like to control how women look and control our sexuality. We need to fight against this move to cover women up if they don't want to.

However I support the freedom of people to market clothes within the law of course so if people want to do this that's fine. You can also find fundamentalist Christian clothing on US sites where again women are controlled by men and made to cover up because men are frightened of their sexuality and want to know their babies are their babies rather than her lover's.

I don't like the use of the word modesty here but I don't think it breaks the law (and I do by the way advise on advertising law as a solicitor, amongst other things).

muhajaba · 19/02/2017 08:26

circleSoflife A lot of the clothes don't meet the requirements of correct hijab (according to the most common interpretations) so to call it Islamic fashion week isn't really accurate and probably would annoy some Muslims. I feel like the organisers will upset someone whatever they do.

Lessthanaballpark · 19/02/2017 08:42

This poster was released by the Iranian government to encourage women to cover up.

Women are candies. And who wants an unwrapped candy?

To think that we don't need a London Modest Fashion week??
circleSoflife · 19/02/2017 08:45

Yikes, that's a horrific message, demeaning to women and men. Why is the text in English though? Is it a reproduction in an English speaking magazine? How do we know it's authentic?

muhajaba · 19/02/2017 08:58

I've seen it on facebook loads, with the text in a few different languages, I didn't know it had come from Iran