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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder if boys should be vasectomised at birth?

499 replies

Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 20:30

If a vasectomy was painless, 100% reversible and could only be reversed when the boy had reached adulthood and had some counselling sessions to help him understand the implications of his decision, would it be a good idea to make vasectomies normal for baby boys?

Just musing on the threads about child services, child abuse and thinking about accidental pregnancies

OP posts:
Toypotpony · 17/02/2017 23:23

How would that prevent child abuse?!

littlefrog3 · 17/02/2017 23:26

How can we decide who is 'allowed' to have children?

People with a university degree only?

People who have owned their own property for 5 years (no renters, ewww yukky chavs!) Joke btw, I rent!!!

Must be over 25 but under 30.

Must be in full time employment (at least one in the couple.)

Must be married.

Must be on £25K or over.

If they lose their job, baby is taken off them and given to better people.

See how mad all that sounds. ^

Picking and choosing who gets to have babies just ain't gonna work is it?!

Original poster
Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 23:28

BertieBotts not really sure where I was going with that.

Maybe that we make so many decisions about where and how our kids spend their day that to talk about bodily autonomy is a bit redundant. If they can't decide what they wear, when they're washed, where they live, who holds them etc then autonomy is a moot concept.

OP posts:
Rufus27 · 17/02/2017 23:29

Adoptive mum here. Whilst I find the idea of compulsory vasectomy abhorrent, I also struggle with the behaviour of my DC's birth parents. Every time one goes into care, a new one is born less than a year later (four times over). I have no answers, but it's hard to see it happen.

Original poster
Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 23:31

Toypotpony How would that prevent child abuse?!

Fair question and probably a badly phrased OP. I was thinking about unwanted kids who may be neglected.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 23:33

Rufus27 when you say compulsory do you mean a parent choosing that for their baby (so the baby has no say) or something like the state choosing it for all baby boys?

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 17/02/2017 23:34

But all of those things are temporary and they can decide all of them themselves once they are old enough. They're also all necessary things to have done for them before they are old enough to express a preference. It would hardly be appropriate to leave a newborn naked all the time just in case they didn't like the clothes you picked Confused

PacificDogwod · 17/02/2017 23:39

The 2 examples of state dictated reproductive control that I can think of (China, Hitler's Germany), things did not end well, did they?

While I see where you are coming from, Dutch, I can see more problems and horrible disasters than benefits from your proposed scenario.

Original poster
Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 23:43

PacificDogwod what's to stop the state from refusing permission to reverse a vasectomy now? Or refusing removal of a coil?

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 17/02/2017 23:44

I think it would only be taken up by naice MC parents who want to "protect" their poor Tarquin falling "victim" to one of those awful estate girls who would "trap" him into being a father.Hmm

Slarti · 17/02/2017 23:47

Chilling thread Confused

Rufus27 · 17/02/2017 23:47

I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) you meant state controlled?

PacificDogwod · 17/02/2017 23:48

The state is not refusing reversal of vasectomy Hmm

The state i.e. legislation has nothing to do with it, nor should it.

Resources are scarce and vasectomy should be considered irreversible (ethics apart, even IF the plumbing can be reconnected - not a given due to scarring etc - the development of semen antibodies can mean infertility even if the tube is patent again) and adults should make a fully informed choice to go ahead with it.
Removal of a coil? There is no doctor worth their salt who will absolutely 'refuse' removal of a coil - if that has been the experience of women they ought to be supported in a. finding somebody who will and b. complaining the crap out of whoever refused.

Again, the state has nothing to do with it.

PacificDogwod · 17/02/2017 23:49

Dutch1e, your OP actually sounds far more badly considered with your follow up questions than I gave you credit for tbh.

MommaGee · 17/02/2017 23:52

you are also protecting the rights of future babies, to be born into loving, stable, supportive environments but that suggests the state can control who has the reversal and refuse of they dont think the guy will measure up. And it doesnt stop that "nice" 28 yr old lawyer Tarquin with his own house and a sweet sah wife from actually being a paedophile or beating his wife every Friday night or a gambler etc.

And then were back to the the eugenics and social engineering aspect of population control.

Except as previously stated it's only partial population control cos it doesnt stop Tarquin from shagging every woman in his office and getting them pregnant and passing on every sti he picked up at uni cos he didn't bother using a condom cos hr couldn't get them pregnant

BertrandRussell · 17/02/2017 23:53

It's interesting that people have got so incredibly would up at the idea of any limit on male fertility.

What if the thought experiment was to render girls infertile until they made a conscious decision to have a baby? Obviously by a 100% painless, safeand reversible method.

liz70 · 17/02/2017 23:56

"a 100% painless, safe and reversible method."

Which doesn't exist, for male or female, so it's a moot point.

Original poster
Dutch1e · 17/02/2017 23:59

Rufus27 No I didn't mean state-controlled permission as such. Just a doctor's sign-off and a counselling session (or similar) to make sure the man had a full and clear understanding of what would be involved in his decision to reverse his vasectomy.

OP posts:
PacificDogwod · 17/02/2017 23:59

I don't think that people are particularly wound up at the idea of curtailing male fertility, but rather at the suggestion of curtailing it in baby boys, without the option of consent or refusal.
I would be equally upset at the suggestion of baby girl being sterilised at birth, even if it was reversible/safe/pain-free.

If both sexes could share all reproductive risks AND gave informed consent to such a procedure (with the option of declining), that would be a different thing altogether.

But as it is, yes, moot points all round.
Unless we are all helping with a creative writing exercise Grin

Freakingoutmummy · 18/02/2017 00:01

Op you are crazy. This suggestion would never ever work, surely the best idea is better sex education rather than. Sterilisation? Your proposal merely extinguishes the baby aspect..not the std one..if kids were rendered infertile until your given age...I bet there would be more incidences of stds. And when would you say it was ok for a reversal? I had a unplanned / at the time unwanted (but very much loved cherished and wanted now) baby, the dad has had no contact from his choice.,,he was 36 when I gave birth.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2017 00:01

""a 100% painless, safe and reversible method."

Which doesn't exist, for male or female, so it's a moot point."

Of course it doesn't. That's why this is just a thought experiment.

RebelRogue · 18/02/2017 00:02

Bertrand I'd feel the same if it was little girls. Probably even more enraged as women fought and are still fighting to get autonomy over their own bodies and reproductive rights, to take all that away at birth would be awful.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2017 00:05

But (in this thought experiment) they would have to absolute freedom to reverse the process when they wanted to have a baby.......

StrangeLookingParasite · 18/02/2017 00:06

Dutch how many operations has you son been through? How many tines have you had to watch them lie in a tiny little hospital gown with them groaning in pain?

Why are you taking a theoretical thread so very, very personally? Yes, I get that your son went through surgery. This thread is not about him. It is hypothetical.

Honestly, doesn't anyone ever consider a what if scenario? Does everything have to be literal?
And this very scenario exists in Lois McMaster Bujold's Barrayar series, on Beta Colony, where contraceptive implants are put in at puberty, as well as ear piercing and earrings indicating your sexual preference (including abstinence). There is a bit of a party for it.
And yes, I can see quite a few problems with it, too.

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/02/2017 00:06

I have find the idea of tying a baby girl's tubes just as abhorrent. What are your views on tying the tubes of baby girls Bert?