To wonder if boys should be vasectomised at birth?

[Dutch1e]

If a vasectomy was painless, 100% reversible and could only be reversed when the boy had reached adulthood and had some counselling sessions to help him understand the implications of his decision, would it be a good idea to make vasectomies normal for baby boys?

Just musing on the threads about child services, child abuse and thinking about accidental pregnancies

So OP, imagine that your stupid thought became real life.

I have Cerebral Palsy, would I be allowed to procreate?

I can't even fucking believe I've responded. Twice.

Opting into fertility would be a great thing if it worked.

But I don't think it's possible. One because unnecessary medical intervention on children too young to consent is barbaric. Two because of all the potential problems with the fact that you'd have the possibility to control who could opt into fertility and who couldn't.

Even if it was started with great intentions and people could have it reversed just by asking, how would you safeguard that from being changed in the future?

Plus, at the point that we have sterilisation which is 100% painless, noninvasive, reversible AND has no potential to go wrong (which is likely to be never!) I'd imagine that most people would opt for this during adolescence or young adulthood anyway. Which means that you don't actually need to do it on babies. Because people would actually choose this as a method of contraception anyway. If you have to do it on babies because nobody agrees to have it done otherwise, it's probably not a good idea to do it to babies either.

Dutch1e

except that getting tubes tied is major surgery whereas vasectomies aren't.

Doesn't this defeat your "what if" argument?
On the off chance that you are after a discussion, you are also over looking the 1 in 10 long term pain. that cannot be cured by repeated operations and other complications.

It's interesting that people assumed immediately that there would be some control by the state. I was imagining a simple choice by the man.

If we're talking about permission to be fertile having to be sought then I agree that's abhorant.

"Agree with the posters who point out it should apply to girls too, except that getting tubes tied is major surgery whereas vasectomies aren't."

No, not really. The risks of vasectomy are routinely underestimated, and those of (keyhole) tubal ligation tend to be overstated.

10% lifelong untreatable bollock pain? That doesn't go away even on reversal? Yes, a great thing for the next generation. Not to mention all those who never regain fertility despite tubes being clear.

I take it OP has no DS, and probably no DC at all.

I'd like to opt out of my periods and I'm infertile anyway.

It's really worrying that you are even posting this. We are messing around with nature enough at it is. I find it dreadful you could even think this!

But is "empowering" teens (or anyone) to believe that having sex is safe because they can't get pregnant really a good idea anyway?

I have Cerebral Palsy, would I be allowed to procreate?

It's a big leap from the original idea (making an adult decision to reverse a vasectomy) to asking permission to procreate

My DP was a bit of a slacker when he knocked me up 23 years ago. Long haired dodgy biker type with a bit of a crap job.

However he totally stepped up to the plate, changed his job (cut his hair) went all out on his career and is a great Dad and all round model citizen nowadays.

Conversely it seems that some previously decent enough blokes just go to pieces when faced with the general grind and drudgery of fatherhood and soon disappear into the ether.

Piss off.

I was imagining a simple choice by the man

I'm not a surgeon, but I'm pretty sure that vasectomy reversal isn't a process you can do yourself

It's a big leap from the original idea (making an adult decision to reverse a vasectomy) to asking permission to procreate

I assumed that your idea of counselling sessions were state control and that if a threshold wasn't reached during the sessions it wouldn't be reversed.

OP has already said they have a DS. They have also made quite clear it is a thought experiment and for the purposes of the thought experiment we assume there are no negative consequences of the 'vasectomy'.

Christ, the overreaction on here sometimes is frightening.

My immediate thought was that this would be favoured by mothers of sons - protect them against those "crazy" women pretending to be on the pill etc. Controlling fertility safely and easily would be great, I suspect the birth rate would plummet. The outside intervention factor is the problem, and bloody scary if the wrong people get into power.

I think that is the real problem, though. The reversal, and the fact that the reversal would have to come from an outside agency.

Hypothetically speaking, if you could for example give a child a shot of medicine (maybe at the age of 10) which would make them infertile until an antidote was taken - AND you could absolutely guarantee 100% that the antidote would work and there would be no repercussions -then the theory is sound. It would have to be given to both boys and girls, so both partners would be aware of the risks of procreating once the antidote had been administered.

However - what would make it completely unpalatable is the fact that someone else has an input into the decision on whether a person is "ready" to procreate. There are many countries around the world currently in which this would be abused - and I am not so very confident in our political stability to believe that the decision would be at all times completely impartial.

I don't, for the record, think it would increase the incidence of STIs significantly. Although, having typed that, it might be harder for someone to say to their partner "I want (you) to wear a condom because I don't want you to infect me with an STD" than it is to say "I want (you) to wear a condom because I don't want (you) to get pregnant." So maybe it would make a difference...

Dutch1e

It isn't that big a leap at all, social services have been taken to court several times (no I can't remember the actual cases) by people with MH issues to allow marriage and births.

It's a big leap from the original idea (making an adult decision to reverse a vasectomy) to asking permission to procreate

not that big of a leap.... how do you define 'adult'?

IQ?

I have alearnign disability, who makes the desision for me that i'm 'adult' enough?

Actually, I agree that in an ideal world, infertility would be the natural state & fertility would be achieved (reliably) by taking medication.

Medication would obviously be prescribed by a qualified practitioner.

At the very least, this would end unwanted pregnancies.

The issue of who qualifies for the medication would, however, be an ethical nightmare.

Good point. I guess I imagine it being a similar process to being deemed eligible to terminate an unwanted pregnancy in many developed countries. Visits with doctors, counselling to ensure you're making the right decision etc etc.

Ha! I see what you are doing here.

Yes, boys should have to have vasectomies at birth. Can't trust silly men to make decisions on what to do with their own bodies, after all, right?
Must make sure they're really, really sure they want to have children.

Considering that is how women are treated when it comes to having abortions or getting sterilisations, surely it cannot be wrong to treat men that way?

After all, we have equality now, so something that is done to women would certainly be acceptable to do to men. Yeah.

Unless you are saying it should be forced on parents and their children like FGM and circumcision?

Well, FGM and circumcision is usually demanded by parents, the law tries to forbid it.

More like childbirth is forced on women, you know? With all the health risks.

I have a coil - should I be worried the state might suddenly refuse to remove it on my request?

Tweasels

They have also made quite clear it is a thought experiment and for the purposes of the thought experiment we assume there are no negative consequences of the 'vasectomy'.

No they haven't, they have just said totally reversable, and if we ignore the negatives what is the point of the discussion?

Oh yes, great idea. Remove the risk of pregnancy from sex and watch STD rates soar to an all-time high.