To be pissed off at the new tax free childcare

[childcarechallenge]

NC for this.

We have two DC in childcare and live in London. I'm starting a new job next month and my salary is 48K, after tax, student loan, childcare costs and tube to work plus a few other generally working expenses (clothes etc) I've worked out that I will take home less than £200 a month.

DH earns a good salary which is good because we almost completely rely on his salary for rent, bills etc. He just received a large bonus which pushes him over 100K which is the new limit for the new tax free childcare scheme from the government.

Essentially, between 100K and 120K after tax, student loan, the loss of his "tax free allowance" which is clawed back over 100K, and the fact that we will not be able to claim £4000 back on our childcare because he is no longer under 100K (This applies to BOTH of us because of his salary) means that of that £20K we are actually only £1800 better off. AIBU to think that this is complete robbery - DH works extremely hard, very long hours (sometimes 70 hour weeks) in a high stress environment and the government seem to take an obscene amount of his salary.

We have an opportunity coming up to move to a lower tax country in a year or so with his job and this just makes me really want to take it, AIBU?

What is church tax? I realise this is a little off topic, but am fascinated!

People that are members of a church pay a tax of 1-2% that goes to the church to fund church-stuff like taking care of graveyards etc. But since they started to let people "divorce" the church online lots of people stopped having to pay church tax. I'm not a church member so I don't pay any.

The other thing about him taking part time or parental leave is that we really can't afford it. His salary is so much larger than mine.

Lets say he was able to take a few months off, we cant really take the kids out of nursery for a couple of months and then put them back in again, the place might not be available. And if they were in nursery, well firstly whats the point, but also, then since my salary pretty much covers childcare, how would we pay rent and bills.

If he asked to go part time because of costs he could probably negotiate more money off the back of that i guess, as its something they really dont want.

tbh op, as your DH I'd be building up a case saying that due to his current hours, you are having to SAH because the burden of all the pick ups, drop offs, most of the sick days is falling to one parent and they need to compensate him more for this. Alternatively, he works fewer hours and does half the child related tasks. If his job is so crazy because of not being able to hire someone else like him that he can do absolutely nothing at home, then they should be coughing up.

Am I correct in assuming that, as with almost all countries, Finland redistributes from those not raising children to those raising children to pay for their system?

Of course howabout as those children will be taking care of those who don't have children when they're older, but its more like everyone contributes and everyone benefits.

Natsku, are many churches in Finland having to close as a result? (Realise this thread is not about church funding.)

Yes, full time parental leave isn't really the issue I suppose for you op - unless dh took a couple of months off when you start, just to postpone the hassle of working f/t and starting at nursery? But if you can't afford it, that isn't possible. And anyway presumably the places are booked!

The original post is interesting because it does suggest that work sometimes pays less than people think it does - not just commuting but also having the 'right' clothes, shoes etc (though there are cheaper and more expensive shops!) - and a pp made a very good point that you're likely to pay more for food (if you can!) if you don't have time to shop, cook from start etc. But other pp are right that there is a significant long-term financial benefit from staying 'in the work place'. (Not talking about the costs/benefits to family life, because they are very individual - you just can't generalise.)

Not that I know of Ciutadella but they do get 1-2% of all corporate tax as well and there's no getting out of paying that so they still get revenue.

Ciutadella Indeed, my 'extra costs' also include buying a sandwich for lunch because realistically, i'm not going to have time to make a lunch to bring every day. I don't really wear high end designer labels although my jeans do tend to be Levis and not Tesco, i've never spent more than £50 on a handbag. I appreciate that this might seem extravagant to some people but its not crazy and its all self funded (as i have mentioned numerous times, we are not poor, i just feel hard done by on the bonus), i have childless friends who will pay in excess of 800 for handbags!

The job move means that my casual clothes that i wore for my old job are not really appropriate any more so i will need to buy a whole wardrobe of work clothes and look the part for the role.

DH is lucky in that breakfast lunch and dinner are included at work but its made him a little bit rounder with all the takeaways they eat!

i will need to buy a whole wardrobe of work clothes and look the part for the role.
Fair do. But a capsule wardrobe of work clothes doesn't cost the earth - especially if after your 'clothes that you consider to basically be bills' you have £200 floating around and drop £50 per handbag.

Yes, fine you're not spending £800 on bags like your friends but stop for a second and consider that what you friends pay for a daft bag by a label is what some families of 4 live off in a month and you'll get a very real picture of why a lot of people on here are struggling to sympathise.

What's really the issue is you have wealthy friends and feel pissed off that you cant keep up with the jones.

Plus, people have made useful, practical suggestions but youre more interested in cracking the small violin out than changing anything.

Hmmm. Well, I see your point about how much bonus you get to keep and there is a tax blip just above £100k. BUT you are not addressing the point about the Student Loan not really counting.

Overall though, you do sound quite 'poor old me' and whingy. You had children young, before you saved for a house deposit. That's bound to have an impact on finances. There are also cheaper parts of London I think, although I appreciate wanting to be in a decent area. Once the worse bit of childcare is over you'll be in a great position. I have two in London childcare and collectively we earn in the same ballpark - it is painful but it won't last forever. And you are very lucky to have options.

The other thing about him taking part time or parental leave is that we really can't afford it. His salary is so much larger than mine.

It is normal to take parental leave in blocks of a week or two, not of several months. The suggestion is in relation to helping him reduce his salary so you get tax-free childcare.

So he takes 2 weeks when you first go back to work for example, no need to pay childcare and it will slightly reduce his taxable pay.

Dont give up your job, its a short term thing. We are in the same position. The tax system is ridiculous, I asked myself the same questions with my first child and then now my second child, is it worth it? Its worth it!!! It will be very very hard to be back and on high earning if you take a (long)break. Stay positive, thinking about future expensive holiday and extras that we can afford because all these difficult years when the children are very young and the childcare costs are extreme. Most of mums here are staying at home, most of them dont live in London, it will be hard for them to understand. We are hoping to stay put then jump through this £120k bracket then it will make more sense. When 1 child is over 3 yrs old then the cost does come down(cheaper and also with gov 30 hr mins pay top up). Thats the main reason when we couldnt afford our first child to go private while paying £100 or more a day for our second child childcare cost. We are slight worse than you that we both do long hours(I earn more than him and is expected to do more), however we share the responsibility equally between us for pick up and drop. I am dreaming of the time when the childcare cost is done, on the other hand I support private education though, I dont mind to pay for it if I could afford. Just the childcare cost is extremely ridiculous in London.

childcarechallenge

Yes, we've resisted performance-related bonuses because they are awful. They reward pushing children to just pass exams blindly instead of actually teaching them.

I personally think that nobody in sales deserves to be earning those amounts of money. It's immoral when nurses and teachers are paid so much less but do so much more.

You don't have time to make a sandwich? Now you sound ridiculous.....
If your husband is only making one bath a week then it's even more reason to move further out. I had children very young and worked and these are the sacrifices you make.
Enormous tiger the snobby points you make about where children come from economically and what they go on to achieve is just so wrong I don't know where to start. Are you still subsidising an ex husband who doesn't work? Where did he come from economically? I have taught many children who have gone on to achieve great things... my father was a coal miner. Your comments are normally class biased drivel but that takes the biscuit.

Most of mums here are staying at home

Er no. I work full time, which is why I know that sharing the pick ups etc is pretty vital.

it's probably quicker to make a sandwich than it is to go into a shop to choose one and then queue up to pay for it. They're mostly not very nice as well.

You don't have time to make a sandwich? Now you sound ridiculous.....

I buy lunch when I'm in the office or out. Just like the DC have school dinners. I have enough to do and for the sake of saving 15 quid a week I cba to make my own lunch. Lots of people buy lunch at work, it's hardly unusual.

No, its not unusual, but to claim you don't have time is ridiculous. It's quicker to make one than to go and buy one.

if they move further out though, the very small children will spend more time in nursery too. babycham i don't agree, the sales guys in the IT firm I worked in were all sacked en masse when the 2008 downturn hit because the firm rightly predicted no big deals would be signed for the next few years. They get huge bonuses because their income is highly variable and they're more likely to get laid off/make little money in downtimes.

But the point is Narky you go and buy one in your lunchbreak. Not after you've put DC to bed or in the morning before work. It's not about time anyway, it's more organisational headspace for me tbh

I have a lunch break... I cant exactly catch up on housework in that time.

It's a sandwich not a cordon bleu meal... and if your moaning about cash??

my 'extra costs' also include buying a sandwich for lunch because realistically, i'm not going to have time to make a lunch to bring every day.

Oh come on childcare this is fucking ridiculous - how long does it take to put a slice of cheese and some lettuce between two pieces of bread? What do you think all the people who work just as long hours as you for much less money do? It's not an 'extra cost' that someone is imposing on you, it's a luxury that you choose to indulge in. Which is fine - you can afford it - but don't whinge about it.

That sentence sums up this whole thread for me. There are some legitimate complaints to be made about the your position: there is clearly a glitch in the tax situation immediately over £100,000, house prices in London are genuinely shocking, and many many families fall foul of the 'one income doesn't cover / barely covers childcare' problem. But you aren't interested in the structural set up that underlies this - which, by the way, I suspect benefits you in terms of inflated salary quite as much as it penalises you in terms of tax regime - you just want to moan about the fact that you can't afford as expensive a handbag as your friends.

Sorry - I see other people have made the same point more succinctly.

You have to factor in cost of a sandwich?! Dear me.