To be pissed off at the new tax free childcare

[childcarechallenge]

NC for this.

We have two DC in childcare and live in London. I'm starting a new job next month and my salary is 48K, after tax, student loan, childcare costs and tube to work plus a few other generally working expenses (clothes etc) I've worked out that I will take home less than £200 a month.

DH earns a good salary which is good because we almost completely rely on his salary for rent, bills etc. He just received a large bonus which pushes him over 100K which is the new limit for the new tax free childcare scheme from the government.

Essentially, between 100K and 120K after tax, student loan, the loss of his "tax free allowance" which is clawed back over 100K, and the fact that we will not be able to claim £4000 back on our childcare because he is no longer under 100K (This applies to BOTH of us because of his salary) means that of that £20K we are actually only £1800 better off. AIBU to think that this is complete robbery - DH works extremely hard, very long hours (sometimes 70 hour weeks) in a high stress environment and the government seem to take an obscene amount of his salary.

We have an opportunity coming up to move to a lower tax country in a year or so with his job and this just makes me really want to take it, AIBU?

Can I also suggest OP that when you do the maths about whether or not to stay at home you consider the fact that staying at home is not 'free'. You wouldn't just sit at home with your kids doing nothing all day and feeding them nothing. I haven't rtft but a lot of ppl seem to calculate post tax salary minus child care costs minus work related costs equals the benefit of working whereas it should be post tax salary minus child care cost minus work related costs plus 'home childcare costs' equals financial benefit of working..
As for whether you should move out - feel free to!
Your DH is not losing 91percent of his bonus. He is keeping 1.8k + 4k. As a family you are 'losing' the 4k tax free childcare benefit. Annoying yes. Would that make me question the whole tax system? Not rly as realistically I don't expect anyone to help me with childcare costs and anything that comes my way is very welcome....

Maybe if the OP had said 'due to changes in our financial situation, which we are very fortunate to have, there's an issue with our childcare. Does anyone know of a way to work childcare in London if you lose eligibility for childcare vouchers?' then people (me included!) would be able to read between the lines that they've got quite a bit of money but need some suggestions.

E.g. You can't fit an au pair in your 2 bed flat, but if childcare costs you 29,000 a year then moving to a 3 bed + an au pair may actually still be cheaper.

What actually happened is "poor me, look at all these numbers that prove how wealthy I am. Boo boo, we just don't have enough money and it's so wrong. I think it's so stupid that people to expect me to manage so we may as well just move overseas because it's so awful living on £100k+ a year"

Massive difference. One is after advice, the other a snobby pity party.

Interesting how so many people think high earners are somehow lucky or privileged.

Or they could've worked bloody hard at school (and got the associated flack if you were in a crappy comp where very few students actually cared about getting qualifications) spent many years studying on a student loan (which they then paid back), worked long hours living in crappy flatshares to establish themselves, put off having families until they could fully support them, and still work long hours paying into the system albeit for a high salary.

Hmm - that was slightly bitter wasn't it!

There are obviously some people who had the benefit of public school or connections. But by no means everyone.

Or what you said Munchkin plus not having had life circumstances change so massively because of disability that they are now in a situation they never could have foreseen.

People who worked hard still end up in my situation.

On your household income you shouldn't be claiming any tax breaks or free childcare help. Imho. It's not there to support people who are incredibly well off like you are.

Of course they're lucky and privileged. There's no "somehow" about it.

almond could you link to the LSE blog? I'd like to read it.

Just because someone has a household income of 140k doesn't mean they have more disposable income, as Aldi turns into Waitrose, the house is bigger so mortgage/rent cost more, gas and leccy bill turns into a small fortune due to heating said huge gaff, council tax will be higher due to nicer area, same as water rates, the range rover costs £600 a year to tax instead of £60 or whatever and the odd trip to the Costa Del Sol turns into a fortnight at St Barts. And why the feck not? Work hard play hard.

Or if you do actually earn 140k, shop at Aldi and drive a citroen C1 then £200 disposable is a bit low.

Just annoyed that DH paid essentially a 91% tax on a bonus.

I think to factor student loan into what he 'loses' is unfair-he's not losing that money- he's paying back a loan that helped him get to the high paid job he has.

I went from a job with an ok salary to one with a much better one with bonuses- and for years a large amount came straight off my bonus to pay my student loan. I didn't think 'how unfair- I hardly see any of my bonus'- I was really pleased to be able to pay it back- I've paid it now, and would never have been able to do that without those bonuses.

And I wouldn't dream of expecting the government to pay anything towards my childcare costs now- we earn a very similar amount to you - why on earth should they?! I feel very lucky to earn what we do- yes we worked hard, but plenty of people work much much harder for less.

Just because someone has a household income of 140k doesn't mean they have more disposable income

It does, unless they choose to increase their spending.

Nepotism is people who know each other through university etc getting each other jobs.

I'm not saying nepotism doesn't happen as it does, but it's a shit way to run a business, employing someone for who they are rather than what they can do. Unless you hit on that perfect combination of your sister's friend who is also a top notch PR person - you save money on recruiting, and get a fantastic employee too. Suppose all the companies like call centres and shops which run a "refer a friend" anre corrupt and indulging in nepotism too.

And what's the difference between nepotism and networking? I'm self-employed and go to a monthly "women in business" breakfast meeting thing where we all have coffee, eat croissants and listen to presentations. I have met a few people through these events who have given me work, and I have recommended other friends to provide services for their businesses. Its the whole purpose of the event! No different from asking friends to recommend a plasterer or cleaner.

DH is a higher earner and nepotism had nothing to do with it. Neither did luck. Being successful is about seizing opportunities when they present themselves - whether that is volunteering for a project outside your comfort zone, taking the opportunity to work overseas, or moving from one end of the country to another to take a job. He's often told he's "lucky" by family members who are envious of our lifestyle, but who are still lviing in the same small town they grew up in, working in a dead end job and making zero effort to do anything about it.

OP, I hear you that it's all bit much for you and the cut off points do create these situations where the marginal benefit is tiny. We are on a similar household income to you and we are not living a footballer's lifestlye with diamond shoes, gold plated unicorns and the other crazy things people have posted about. Hope it all works out for you as a family - a few years working in KL/HK/Singpore sounds like an amazing opportunity for you all.

plays world's smallest violin

plays world's smallest violin

What you don't seem to grasp is that you are essentially saying that your families deserve a high income because they're great and amazing and talented and other people's don't because they're a bit shit and didn't make the right choices. You have absolutely no grounds for that assumption. There are lots of reasons why not everyone earns £100k. It is perfectly possible to be talented and hardworking and never be able to make those choices.

Sneering at your own relatives doesn't make that entitled attitude any better.

And yes, luck did come into it.

You're bloody lucky you earn so much and you expect tax free childcare as well?!!.... get a grip

Munchkin I went to the crappy comp and worked less hard than the average. I have made the calculations the Op is making. Some people are just suited to academic education. Doesn't make them more hard working or more deserving of high wages imho.

I hate the phrase 'work hard play hard'. Or more accurately I hate that it's shorthand for the implication that if you work hard then financial reward automatically follows, and if you don't earn a huge salary it's sheer laziness.

Loads of people work bloody hard for very little financial reward. They don't get to do the play hard bit, just the work hard bit.

YANBU to move if you feel badly off under the current tax regime, presumably there's nothing holding you here like friends and/or family and you both have skills and qualifications that are transferable to another country?

Only you can know if you're BU to feel aggrieved about keeping only a small proportion of your DH's bonus. I remember feeling pretty aggrieved when we didn't qualify for something new at the time - family tax credit, I think - because my DH's salary was above the threshold for it. But on the other hand we did have enough money to live on at that time, which hasn't always been the case when he was earning less. So swings and roundabouts really.

I work very hard for my money but I'm not a "high earner", although that doesn't make me less successful or jealous just because I don't take home £148,000 per year.

I find it distasteful that you're on here crying poverty when you and your husband have that level of combined income, get your violin out and your begging bowl!

Free/discounted childcare (or free anything) should be reserved for those who genuinely need the financial help, you have some nerve I'll give you that.

If you're too entitled and tight to part with your own money to pay for childcare, then you shouldn't have had children in the first place.

By all means please do move country and take all of the other wealthy leeches with you!

Some people on here don't have a chip on their shoulder, they have the whole fecking potato. Earning a high salary isn't a crime. Wondering how the UK tax system is fair at certain points is not a crime.

If all the "wealthy leeches" left the country, UK would be buggered.

Who exactly said earning a high salary is a crime then?

Blimey, wealthy leeches? That's charming.

Blimey.

Combined income of 148k and you think your free childcare should be prioritised over I don't know.....providing social care for elderly and disabled people, putting more money into the NHS, etc.

To be honest I think the cut off for help towards childcare should be less than 100k.