To be asked to ring in work each day when you are off sick..

[curlysmum]

I have been off work for almost two weeks with this sickness bug then it developed into flu and I am off this week my second week. In my first week I rang I think 3 times to state I was ill then finally saw the doctor last Friday who took one look at me and said you need to rest and I 'm signing you off for 1 more week.
I rang my boss on Monday to tell him this put the Certificate in the post and now today he calls me at home , sounding a bit on the sarcastic side 'how are you' etc I explained all of it again he says , 'so when will you be back ' I told him next Monday and he sounded not impressed so I told him well I have sent in my Doctors certificate etc, he says well I still want you to call in each day WTF! am I a child or a 38 year old women, my dd father said I shd ring the Human Resources lady and give her a piece of my mind. By the way this is a very big American City Company who treat most women like idiots anyway, any view on this??

no it's not a cheap shot
I do find Xenia a very hard woman
I'm not a hard person, yes I might be a little bossy now and again but I'm not a hard person, in fact I'm a kind person and I don't ram my opinions down other peoples throats. I also go out to work. No I might not have the high flying career I once had, I have compromised due to personal circumstances but I like my life just the way it is - even though people like Xenia think women like me are pathetic. I do not agree. I could have employed a nanny and a housekeeper if I'd wanted, I chose not to. Money isn't everything, yes it pays the bills and keeps a roof over our heads but lifes for living IMO.

Not that bit. That just sounded like a Dickens character ranting. The divorce bit.

It's the fact it's always the women with the lack of ambition, always the women who put themselves before their husbands and their careers, virtually always. Such a shame. And they love it, that subsidiarity, the fact their men earn more etc etc. Perhaps it just comes down to testosterone at tne end of the day.

My divorce? I'm certainly no perfect. I don't think we divorced because of my work but I felt financially able to because of what I earn so in a sense it facilitated it. Many women the world over cannot lose their men because they would starve, they have that financial dependence on them that so many British women still choose.

Xenia, i think you are a very clever woman but your views are very blinkered IMO. Yours or nothing. The posts i've seen from you are always very, this is my opinion, that is right, you are wrong. Which i find very odd.

Did/do you have a very pushy feminist mother? Are you a woman? Have to ask VVV's post suggests you are.

This is going to sound a bit mean but i imagine you to be the spitting image of Anne Widecombe(sp), sorry if that is offensive

YR, i used to find lola ferrari(sure that was her name) fasinating(SP?)

Many women have a passionate burning ambition to be good mums and to give their children the precious gift of their time.

I know Xenia that for you this is not something you wanted to give your own children and you felt your time was interchangeable with that of paid help, but this is not good enough for many mothers.

This ambition does get in the way of work, that's one of the hard things of life if you want to spend time with your children. I don't think for most mothers it's about subservience, or staying with their men as they would starve without them, for most women the children come first.

Why don't you all challenge these rigid views from Xenia then instead of implying that she's not a real woman, has a pushy feminist mother or is ugly (I presume that's the reasoning behind the Ann Widdecombe jibe?)? I disagree with many of Xenia's stated views very strongly but these sorts of posts are very depressing.

Most marriages aren't perfect. It takes work from both sides.
Most people aren't perfect... people need to work at that too.
Women stay in work after children. Some leave and choose to stay at home.
Some choose to swallow their ambition and work part-time even.
No one's right. No one's wrong. I see both sides. That's the difference between Xenia and I.

I don't understand why people have children if they are going to palm them off on a nanny. This is just my opinion and i know that there isnt always a choice etc etc, but I cannot think why you would bother.

I always wanted children and want them to love me for being their mum, not for doing well at work and having lots of money. As Britney Spears is finding out money doesn't buy you happiness. She has the success, fame and money but is a complete mess.

Xenia, sorry to keep bringin it back to you, but could it be that in the circles you mix in the women are the ones who have low paid unambitious jobs? I certainly know a lot of men who are lacking in ambition and earn a pitance. Maybe as you are a highly paid and ambitious woman (i'm assuming you are) you are surrounded by men who's wives are the people you describe. In my life most couples are fairly equal in their jobs/pay and child care responsibilities.

financial dependance on men..hmmm...so xenia, how do you feel about single mothers then? in particular ones who mutually ended the relationship and work for little or next to nothing to keep their little family afloat? do you deem them pathetic also?

seriously, im intrigued.

Scummymummy, i do not mean that at all.

The pushy mother comment was referring to one of Xenia's posts about setting a good example to their daughters by aiming high. I just wondered if her own views had come from her mother. It wasn't meant to offend.

The Ann Widecombe comment wasn't meant as ugly although i see why you thought that. It's just the image that is conjured for me. Probably shouldn't have written that as I hate to offend, sorry Xenia. Feel free to compare me to someone, i'd like to see what you think

Scummymummy, sorry, just re-reading your post and it is all about my post, have you read the other posts i've made earlier in the evening because all i was trying to do was challenge her views. I did not mean that she wasn't a real woman at all. Just thought she could be a man?

Just read that back and i hope you see what i mean, as in i keep saying she but actually he, i'm gonna give up this hole is getting bigger and deeper

got this small JCB here if you want to borrow it. I've used it loads of times..

Mines a genuine question scummy - she speaks like she doesnt consider herself a woman in the terms that she describes women.

Its very distinct.

I am new to this mn thing and have only had breif scans over some of these discussions - my initial observation is that it's great that everyone shares stuff etc but some of you need to chill the f*ck out!

Eddas- you were not the only one I was referring to, I promise. It was the general theme. And you are right, you made some great points lower down, imo. I just think it's pretty low when threads descend, without too much extrapolation, into telling someone that their views are such that they somehow are not, cannot, be a 'real' woman, whatever that may be. I want to see Xenia pushed to explain and justify her (imo) bizarre ideas on social justice. I don't want to see her expelled from the so-called sisterhood on the (spurious and unproven) grounds that she is not beautiful, nurturing or feminine enough to belong there.

"my initial observation is that it's great that everyone shares stuff etc but some of you need to chill the f*ck out! "

is it? is it really? Good for you. Thank you for sharing that with us all.

I await your next stage of observation breathlessly.......

Yep thats right I said chill the f*ck out! Urm - just wondering what you're contribution to this discussion has been? I was only trying to lighten the air a little bit as I always find it disappointing when us women fight with women over being women! There is no right or wrong on this one. Do you thing there are groups of blokes getting all pissy with each other about their lifestyle choices on some 'DadsNet' website? Stick together sisters!!

phucku

But it's completely unfair on their employers and very unfair on other mothers who do take work seriously i9f those mothers who turn up when they choose fitting it around their family, little Johnny has flu and granny or a neighbour couldn't possibly mind him so let's have yet another day off work and upset the employer, the clients, the co-workers. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and enjoy your 24/7 with the child but don't expect to mess employers around in the process and think they'll then not prefer women and men who don't.

I have always thought full time parenthood was a better deal for parents than part time working. Part time working means your husband expects you do everything at home, your pay is pathetic and you lose promotion and you don't do anything well. It also as we now see means parents who are committed to work get tarred with the same brush.

Perhaps working parents whose career prospects have been damaged by all the working parents who mess around, often aren't there, ill all the time or their children are, want to ask for impossible hours etc should bring a class legal action against those other parents. It is there the damage has been caused by those other parents, not by the employers.

I see your point scummy and on my part wasn't trying to make Xenia not a woman any more

Pann, do you have a large one too as normally my holes are huge Maybe you have something to avoid them in the future for me, or maybe i should refrain from posting?!?!

Xenia, i actually agree that working part time in my job makes it very hard. I find that there isn't enough time to do anything properly. The trouble is that we could not afford our house without my wage(which isn't too bad considering i'm part time) So i cannot be a full time mum. Am about to have another child(4 weeks to go) and am seriously considering whether to go and get a simpler job after ML this time. Also we are toying with the idea of me being full time and dh working part time.

Eddas - Lola Ferrari - lol -
I only have a size 38 DD bust, so never as good as Lola !

Ladies, PLEASE, I really don't think Xenia is interested in any of our views.

I think she has come to this website because she has a set agenda. People like this NEVER change their minds on any thing.

Personally I am getting very bored with threads that she kicks off. I would much rather talk about Eurotrash

Xenia reminds me of DominiConner on other threads. I think she is the female alter ego of DC !

Most people work things out like Eddas. Many employers find part time workers just what they need. I need part time cleaning and part time nannying. Depends on the job. What employers don't like is people who are unreliable and I think there's a big problem with a lot of people wanting flexible working after maternity leave and many jobs not easily fitting into that pattern yet the woman has an expection she can have it and the employer can't or 4 days the job might just about squeeze to but she wants 3. In practice most people do sort it out.

The advantage of part time is you can keep your hand in and also if you find housework etc a bit boring at times you get relief from that tedium.

Oh dear, Xenia and I are different people.
I would however (contrary to my image), offer some constructive advice.

My work means dealing with a lot of HRs, and their perspective is that they are protecting the firm from the staff. You should assume that any measure taken by HR is for the (perceived) benefit of th firm, not the staff.
It's an adversarial situation, and you should take precautions for the next phase....

Keep a log of the calls you make to HR. Who you spoke to and what you said. They may be using this process as the first part of getting rid of you.
Do call them every day.
You need to be seen to be reasonable, which in this context sadly, does not mean what most of us would think. If you are not so ill that you cannot use a phone, then it's not reasonable to make you call, but that's not the description I read hear.
You need to have "reasonableness" on your side if this gets nasty.
Do not share anything with HR that you do not want taken down and used in evidence against you. Express the desire to get back to work as soon as possible.
A small consolation is that the HR probably doesn't want to hear from you any more than you want to ring. Do you want some sick woman interrupting your work and talking about how ill she is every morning ?

Good points.

I need to get some work done now but thought this which I was just sent....might be of amusing relevant on this thread. They can send out spies with videos to video if you're properly sick or not.

"A former police officer filmed mowing his lawn while on a disability allowance cannot claim that the filming broke the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), according to the Investigatory Powers Tribunal.The former policeman wanted the Tribunal to rule against the police force under RIPA, but the Tribunal has found that it has no jurisdiction to do so because the filming of him did not constitute the kind of surveillance that RIPA governs.

The former sergeant retired in August 2001 from the police having made a claim dating from 1998 for an injury he said he sustained to his back after tripping on a carpet in a police station while on duty. He was awarded £100,000 in 2002.

He was also awarded an enhanced pension due to the injuries on the basis that his disability was estimated at 53%. He said that the injuries would affect his ability to earn income as a driver.

In August 2002 the police instructed a firm of private detectives to observe the former sergeant to see if he was doing anything that was inconsistent with his claimed injuries. Nine minutes of video footage showed the man mowing the lawn and in his car.

RIPA governs the surveillance of people by public bodies to ensure that it is lawful and that relevant warrants and permissions are obtained.

"Cases of unauthorised covert surveillance by a public authority of its employees would appear at first sight to be the kind of case that would fall within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal," said the Tribunal's ruling. "The main purpose of RIPA is to ensure that the relevant investigatory powers of public authorities, such as interception of communications and various forms of covert surveillance, are used lawfully and compatibly with [Human Rights] Convention rights.""