Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

oops that was an essay.

Finally, our first house was an unmodernised mid-terrace. No inside loo or hot water. We did a lot of the modernising ourselves, which was bloody hard work. But it was all we could afford. I wonder how many of the younger generation would be prepared to start like that?

Jachog we're going back to the point where youngsters are starting like that - but it's rented, not bought.

I don't want pensioners to struggle, however they seem happy to make sure those that come after them do. In the dark underbelly of twitter there are a lot of very right wing 60-80 year olds that positively rejoice in the discussion of younger 'snowflake' generations suffering financially, they vote to ensure it and take joy in disabled, unemployed and working families benefits being cut. Reading their vicious ramblings has given me a very different view of OAPs to that which I previously held.

Mrswhitewash in my experience, all my friends who went to uni moved elsewhere to in laws / their parents.

Non receive any 'free childcare' apart from x2 Max per year of overnight at the weekend if they've got a wedding or anniversary.

I think the 'regular free weekly childcare provided by GP' is a myth outside of working class families who live very near each other.

Also as an aside all the great grandparents mentioned above (some alive some recently died - all born around 1920-1930) lived alone, managed own homes with paid for help. Only help from my parents / IL ovassional drive to hospital.

So no, I don't agree that 'many people get dementia require long term care' as this does not apply to any of the total of 8 great grandparents here.

I think it's a cliche people say to make them feel better about 60-70y taking family wealth and not distributing it.

Plenty, Jaxhog. But round here every unmodernised "do-er upper" is snapped up by builders; in fact one builder told me that most are bought before the occupant has departed. They actually door-knock elderly people's houses and offer them cash. Run-down bungalows are particularly sought-after as they can be demolished and a big f-off 6-bedder built in its place.

The "working hard" is a bit of a red herring. Obviously some people worked harder in the past and some people work harder now. I think the thing in the past was security . You knew that if you started in a job you could job along in it if you kept your nose clean for the rest of your life. Fil (who was in WWII, actually, he joined when he was 17) worked as a telephone engineer (those blokes you see up poles and unravelling wires in boxes) and he was able to rush round, do all his jobs, and be home for lunch and that was it for the day. I spoke to a current telephone engineer recently and he told me they were tracked and there was no way they'd be able to skive off early. Fil has been claiming a pension for longer than he was working. I couldn't believe how much he was getting when his financial affairs were handed over.

I think part of the problem is that younger generations today have much higher expectations of what is a 'reasonable' standard of living. Nothing wrong with that, but it does colour any comparison.

My IL made such comments about of first house - too good for us despite needing a hugh amount of work.

The reason was it was a three bed in slightly rough area and better than their first of two up and down they bought. Except they bought very early just turned 20's - we were in our mid thirties with children already- a two up and down was already too small for us and we didn't think we'd be able to trade up and house prices were rising up so fast no way any wage increases would keep up. So were looking for a lasting house.

They completely ignore fact spent over a decade saving really hard and doing without a lot to be able to buy at all.

The thing about these articles is that it sets everything up as "us vs them" in terms of generations when actually the debate we should be having is why aren't salaries increasing at least with the cost of living? I believe in real terms they're falling. Why is private renting so insecure and expensive? (Not the case in other european countries) What happens when people get sick / retire if they're private renting and it eats up 50% of their salary and they're on a zero hours contract? How much of the benefits bill goes to (largely unregulated) private rental sector? Who does it benefit for this to be the case? Could it be the 1% who also own the newspapers and many politicians? I see this as a massive diversion from the real issues. Yes, baby boomers are better off but the problems facing future generations are their problems too if they have children, which most of them do.

If you read the article, you'll see that one of the biggest changes since 2001 is the number of 'pensioners' who still work, something that has changed since mandatory retirement has been abolished. Are people suggesting this should return?

Boppity I don't get any family help at all - never have had even in emergencies. It's always been DH and I and that's it - at times I've felt bloody bitter about it as well.

However I have met many people who do have it - middle class and working class alike. I even know some people who have even taken early retirement to able able to help their children out with childcare.

I've encountered so much utter surprise that we have no help - and utter disbelief that we aren't lying and encounter so many other parents with support and so many GP providing it at toddler groups and school gates - I've at times wondered how odd our situation actually is.

To find someone claiming it is a myth - is utterly bizarre to me.

Phone in about today on five live/
lots of arguing and people texting in saying ' im not wealthy' which is probably true, not all pensioners were able to buy a home or have a work place pension. Things like this just stir up even more resentment.
Its hard enough for the young these days, without all this being rubbed in their faces as well. A lot of pensioners did work hard, one lady was saying how they only had an old car - but cars were not as expensive to run then as they are now, people could get under the bonnet and fix things, the road tax wasnt as much nor was petrol costs. Its become harder to run a older car now and people need them to be able to work too. One example but i think its just going to cause more unhappiness if they keep on saying ' this group is better off than that group'.. when its not completely true.

If you read the article, you'll see that one of the biggest changes since 2001 is the number of 'pensioners' who still work, something that has changed since mandatory retirement has been abolished. Are people suggesting this should return?

God no - both DH and I expect to work till we really can't - ideally working part time - otherwise I expect we would end up in poverty.

I agree with FloweringDeranger.

I think the situation would be more defensible if pensioners were paying NI in the same way as everyone else does and if disability benefits were at the same level as the basic state pension.

The triple lock will also continue to redistribute from young to old as long as wage growth is lower than 2.5% or inflation. This is unsustainable in the long run.

Mrs white, we didnt have any help from our parents either. Lots of our friends did, were able to go away for weekend breaks, leave the children while they went to work. Sometimes they had to pay them, but it was fraction of our fees. Unless it was a real emergency, it was never offered and to have a night out at all wasnt on the cards, so we used to take it in turns or use local baby sitters when they were much older.
I understand how you feel and mine are both 20s now!

Maybe its location Mrs white
In London were seen as very fortunate to have one weekend of sat mornin to sun morning off per year. I don't know anyone who has free GP help

MrsWhiteWash - here's another person with absolutely no help! Absolutely none. I have taken the dcs everywhere - smear tests, dentist... People who do have help just don't get it. I have posted here before about how I suggested a Babysitting Circle at playgroup. One mother looked at me and asked incredulously, "Why don't you ask your parents?" I said that would require a seance but she looked blank.

Also in reply to Boppity, there are plenty of people with dementia. And plenty of those have their assets wiped out. Pil had a house and very healthy savings. They have ploughed through over £500K (including house sale) because of excellent health but cabbage brains. I think this will get much worse as people will have looked after their bodies, but nothing can stop the atrophy of the neural passages.

The sweeping statement in the first line of the article is later qualified by not true of all retirees but relates to those who have an occupational pension, own their home and may also be still be earning

So they have a workplace pension, own their house ( so no rent or mortgage) and may still be working.
Probably the biggest reason for having or not having disposable income is housing costs.

Its not a true comparison at all.

It excludes those living in rented property, those relying solely on state pension or those that cant work.

Ours are reasonably well off and we're glad that they enjoy their retirement - going on lots of holidays, days out etc. One is housebound now and so glad they were able to retire early.
The older generations in our family have always looked after the next lot so have passed a lot of money down while still living as we intend to do with our DC.
Certainly younger generations need to sort out their finances earlier now.

My parents are not well off pensioners. But then they are still paying rent. FIL is fine financially, as he has a small house with no mortgage, and as he is not well enough to travel far, only spends money going to local cafe, or pub.

Well, of course there will be poor pensioners, just as there are poor people of working age. But, what is being said, is that there is a situation where the average worker is worse off than the average pensioner.

And, let us not forget, that working people are probably having to support a family - no doubt on two salaries now. Children are expensive - food, shoes, clothes. An adult does not have to buy new clothes and shoes. A pensioner's outgoings are only on what they need.

Around here pensioners are very wealthy indeed. Their trolleys in Waitrose defy belief. Constant holidays. New cars. And one had the audacity to moan to me that her dd and sil couldn't get on the housing ladder. Er, give them some help then, love.

And it is obvious that if you are getting a pension, working full time, and own your house, that you are going to be better off. All this article is saying really is that more pensioners are working full time instead of retiring. Probably because their pensions are not large enough to let them retire yet.

No help here, we had to move away from families to find work. So did at least half the people I knew. (More, actually). No one's fault, my dm would have liked to meet dcs from school, I'm sure.

Of course children are expensive. Once your children grow up and can support themselves, you will be better off.

Ineedacupofteadesperately is asking the right questions I would say that a lot of other posts are froth....I don't mean that in an unkind way but in the end I think youngsters will look at what we (pensioners) had at our disposal (free uni education etc) and say its unfair that they don't have this. How can it be right to leave uni with £40k debt like 2 out of the 4 of ours have? Look at what's happened with zero hours contracts. My brother in his 60's wanted part time work and was competing against late 30 year olds with families to support. He couldn't do it to them, in affect he was stealing their livelihood.

Rhoda, you will always meet these types i;m afraid.

My dad still pays rent , he is 95, but at lot of his choices were poor ones years ago, he didnt want a mortgage and couldnt buy his home anyway ( something wrong with the structure of it) he could be so much more better off than he is if he had moved, but he didnt want to! He isnt wealthy at all.