to think you cannot force a child to do their best at school?

[FauxFox]

DD is 11 Y7.

She is very clever and articulate.

She is lazy, disorganised, messy and doesn't care if she gets poor marks or detention.

We have tried so hard to get her to focus and prioritise - screen time, privileges etc all rationed and proportional to effort, but it's just relentless I've just been through her school books which veer between basic effort and shameful - she can do so much better but the default seems to be 'do the minimum'.

Should I just let school deal with it? She gets detention regularly for not doing homework (or forgetting to hand it in when I have made sure she has done it). She does not care.

I was the opposite as a child and can't really understand why anyone would have this attitude. Anyone with an extremely stubborn child got any pearls of wisdom?

faux what does she say when. Ypu talk to her about it?

Does she have any aspirations shes older?

Mine have all been like that and in my experience no you can't make them. It needs to come from them. All I have found works is to provide support if a DC wants it but otherwise let them find their feet.

One of mine held the school records for demerits in Y7 and seemed to always have detentions (which they treated as an unofficial homework club). By Y10 they were super organised and aiming for top grades. Another had worked out by Y11 that school wasn't for them so went and did something else.

How about showing her the negative side of the job market? Perhaps you could take her to spend a day or two doing in a charity shop and get them to save her all the really boring tasks? Might get her to realize that there is a point to school qualifications?

I do sometimes wonder if we expect very bright children to be academic.

Therefore it seems unusual they do the bare minimum. Yet someone who struggles probably wouldn't have the same expectations placed on them?

Not everyone loves the education system. It's a one size fits all system and some can navigate it and some can't. Some want to navigate it and others do it because it's expected.

I would ask the school to put her on report. This means at the end of every lesson the teacher writes a short comment about how she has behaved in that lesson on the report. That way you can keep an eye on how much effort she is putting in. I also think the 'redo at home' idea earlier in the thread is a good one. Any subject she gets a poor comment in, make her redo the work at home, or something similar if you can't find out exactly what it was. On a day she gets all good comments, give her a reward, ie. Screen time, money, nice things to eat, whatever works or a mix of them all. Days she gets bad comments on she gets none of those things and redos the work. If she fails to give you the report she gets none of those things and has to spend an hour doing work from the subjects she was doing that day. This is important or she will just 'forget' to give you the report every time she gets a bad comment.

Whatever you do, do NOT leave it up to the school. Children whos parents are unsupportive of bad behaviour or ignore it, only get worse, not better, as they think it doesn't really matter. Make sure she does her homework at home.

Perhaps you could take her to spend a day or two doing in a charity shop and get them to save her all the really boring tasks? Might get her to realize that there is a point to school qualifications?

Yeah, i bet the staff in the charity shop (who I would bet you anything DO have 'school qualifications') would be right on board with that. "Try your best, else you might end up like me!".

I see you mention "playdates" for a YR7 kid - is she actually in control of any part of her life? ie can she just leave school mooch around the park/town, visit her mates houses etc. Or does she have to come straight home and be under your supervision - if she does then it's not too surprising that detentions aren't a punishment.

Also - does all this work have a particular point - linking effort to the reward is a positive behaviour, working for the sake of working is not. Instilling a work or avoid a punishment can make people work, but it's not a good motivation, 'cos eventually you either run out of punishments, or they reach an age where you can no longer punish.

Ragwort-

Use a range of strategies depending on the child.
Option to ensure work is complete if they need a bit of extra time, children can come back and be proactive. Those children get great reports, praise, positive calls home etv. It's all aboit promoting thr kind of positive attitudes.

Flip side is if i mark their books and it's not good enough then they have no choice but to come back. Those children will get negative reports and they'll see their peers being rewarded.

At many secondaries ive worked at if students are consistentlu not pulling their weight they go onto extended days to catchup and redo work. This has implications on extra curriculars etc.

I do regular studnet voice about learning and have an open door policy.
If a student doesnt seem themself then i'll chat to them and pass info to tutors
When i have a behaviour chat i always focus on the good intentions behind it
I contact home regularly (good and bad)
I photocopy great pieces of work to go home as home can often rewards a lot more than me. Often students (even y11) like to have something good passed home.
At the far end, students redo every piece of work that's not to standard.

Most kids want to do well. They just want to see what they can get away with (especially in early secondary).

london
You really did just write that didn't you?

The PP who gave advice from a recent course sounds spot on with some of her suggestions.

In case it's any help, my ds2 was a bloody nightmare at school. Sloppy, badly organised, slack attitude and the kind of kid that some teachers liked due to him being sharp witted and most really,mreally didn't like.

He took us by surprise and did well in his GCSEs. He then went to sixth form and took subjects he liked. It was the kind of institution where the students were treated with respect and called the teachers by their first names. For the first time ever we went to parents' evening and got glowing reports which we honestly believed were mistaken. He left with A*, A,A in his chosen subjects. And a U in his extended essay because, guess what, he didn't want to do it. .

He's a young adult now and still has trouble making sensible decisions at times. He makes rash statements and can be tricky but he's doing well. Some people really are square pegs. I'm sure he has some mild combination of inattention, organisational, decision making difficulties but is managing.

Good luck. She will drive you mad but she will find her way.

I could have written the OP! It really isn't as simple as not standing for it. I am no pushover. I had a phone call this week about my 11 year old DD. She has not been doing her homework, in spite of going to homework club and/or being asked by me to do it at home.

She has been given detentions at lunchtime for not doing her homework, but she has not been attending these. They say the next step is after school detention.

Great idea, but if they cannot get her to attend the lunchtime ones, I doubt after school ones will be more successful!

We have done grounding, loss of screens, shouting, helping, homework club, where she has support from school staff, still she refuses to do it.

We have also tried out and out bribery! All to no avail!

I saw this the other day and it has helped me to get on with an online course I signed up for!
hbr.org/2014/02/how-to-make-yourself-work-when-you-just-dont-want-to

Particularly learning to ignore it when you just don't feel like doing something...