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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Pub not serving water

82 replies

Shaddrack · 12/02/2017 10:42

Is it the norm for pubs to refuse customers water if they think they've drunk too much alcohol?
Went out last night, my friend had over done it and asked for a glass of water before we left to walk home but was refused due to "the science"
I've googled but I can't find this science, all I can find is suggestions you refuse any more alcohol and offer water!
I think it was such a shitty thing to do, not just unreasonable but actually fairly irresponsible. But maybe i'm just not privy to the right "science"?

OP posts:

user892 · 12/02/2017 12:50

Other than he was an arse who doesn't understand his duties.

Original poster

Shaddrack · 12/02/2017 14:24

20 reasons to refuse water and serve coke instead I honestly can't think of one.

OP posts:

TheMythOfFingerprints · 12/02/2017 15:43

Well, the mark up on soft drinks (especially fizzy drinks that come off a gun) is a big reason that he would be keen, but he is still not allowed to refuse.

SansComic · 12/02/2017 15:47

Some licences require it but most don't.

As an ex area-manager for a large chain of bars, we used to advise against it. You'll get eithe rpeople taking up space with a glass of tap water or people drinking too much, having a glass of water and then vomiting everywhere.

If someone is drunk enough to

It sounds like this barman was an arse but you rarely have legal rights to tap water. That's something oft-quoted by the uninformed.

RoonilWaslib I've seen it happen after someone drank absinthe without appearing too drunk. They had 1/2 pint of water and fairly soonish passed out.

MadMags · 12/02/2017 15:52

Actually, when I used to go out, the late bars and clubs wouldn't serve you water at all.

And they didn't legally have to! (This is Ireland, so possibly different but I doubt it.)

I'm not sure about the reasoning but as sans said, a barman friend of mine once said he wasn't cleaning up everyone's vomit after they started downing pints of water so could be that.

Original poster

Shaddrack · 12/02/2017 15:55

Sans that's what he was talking about i think, that it would make her thow up. Is it a particular effect of water is that why a soft drink was deemed to be OK?

OP posts:

Lules · 12/02/2017 15:57

sans the government's website says providing free tap water is a mandatory licensing condition, so therefore it has to be provided: www.gov.uk/guidance/alcohol-licensing#mandatory-licensing-conditions

knackeredinyorkshire · 12/02/2017 16:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SansComic · 12/02/2017 16:07

Shaddrack

I have no idea. The barman seems like they were being a bit of a dick and similar to those who love to quote health and safety or safeguarding with no real understanding of what it means.

In my experience (not science), carbonated drinks are drunk slower so may mean less likely to vomit. They also tend to be colder than tap water.

When I was a bar manager, I had a rule of thumb, 'drunk enough to 'need' water, drunk enough to get the fuck out of my bar'.

lules

The key there is 'reasonably available'. It may have changed but we used to not have any form of QC on our tap water. By doing this, our risk assessments always said that the risks outweighed the benefits of offering free water, especially when we could offer bottled water with guaranteed quality.

RebeccaCloud9 · 12/02/2017 16:08

That is absolutely ridiculous - not serving WATER because of vomiting but quite happy to serve ALCOHOL??!!

And the absinthe probably just hadn't kicked in at first and the consumption of water was just a coincidence.

barinatxe · 12/02/2017 16:10

The guidelines are quite interesting in that they imply that even if there were no mains water available, assuming there was some kind of drinkable water on the premises (even Perrier) then they would be legally obliged to give you it for free.

The 2014 Order provides that the responsible person must ensure that free potable water is provided on request for customers where it is reasonably available... This condition means that responsible persons at all premises must ensure customers are provided with potable (drinking) water for free if they ask for it. It does not need to come from a tap... What is meant by “reasonably available” is a question of fact; for example, it may not be reasonable to expect free water to be available in premises for which the water supply had temporarily been lost because of a broken mains supply and where no alternative (for example, bottled water) is available.

I can't imagine there are many pubs that don't have expensive bottled water available to paying customers, even in the unlikely event that the mains supply is interrupted.

Report them.

SansComic · 12/02/2017 16:11

And the absinthe probably just hadn't kicked in at first and the consumption of water was just a coincidence.

Perhaps. Who knows? It was the early 80s and we were on acid.

cdtaylornats · 12/02/2017 16:11

The licensing conditions say that water must be available it says nothing about a glass or serving it. Free potable water is probably available in the toilets from the taps.

Finola1step · 12/02/2017 16:15

I have just completed the Personal Licence Training. It was made very clear that on all licensed premises, free potable tap water must be made available, if requested.

I suspect this is a barman making a decision when he actually doesn't know licensing laws.

If you're interested, go on your local council website. Search for premises licences and License Policy. If you do a search for the premises itself, you should get access to license details, including who is the Designated Premises Supervisor (new term for Licensee). Unless of course its a very old license.

JustSpeakSense · 12/02/2017 16:16

I'd report this to the landlord, his dickish barman is putting his liquor license in jeopardy.

FurryLittleTwerp · 12/02/2017 16:19

Alcohol tends to lower the blood sugar, so water is not necessarily the best liquid for rehydrating with.

Lots & lots of water deranges the salts in the blood which is also a bad thing.

I think this might be "the science"

Gabilan · 12/02/2017 16:20

The only "science" I can think of that's remotely linked is Leah Betts's case and hyperhydration. Doesn't sound as if that's what was bothering the barman though.

Chloe84 · 12/02/2017 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

yaela123 · 12/02/2017 16:25

There could be 20 reasons.

More money 2)Errm...

doubleshotespresso · 12/02/2017 16:34

Tap water should be within the licensing conditions as available to all, always.

The Designated Premises Supervisor and Personal License holders should all be aware of this as it forms part of their "duty of care to their patrons".

Apologies if I have doubled with may body here, I have sped-read this thread and am on monster painkillers.

hmcAsWas · 12/02/2017 16:45

Should have offered water and sounds like he was being a twunt with his 'science' comment, but as an aside does not friend follow the hard drink, soft drink, hard drink, soft drink protocol for avoiding getting shit arsed?

JassyRadlett · 12/02/2017 17:31

Flat out wrong.

From the Home Office guidance on the mandatory licensing conditions (which helpfully sorts out 'reasonably available' for you too - no QC required ):

Section 2: Potable water

The 2014 Order provides that the responsible person must ensure that free potable water is provided on request for customers where it is reasonably available.

Many premises already offer free tap water. This condition means that responsible persons at all premises must ensure customers are provided with potable (drinking) water for free if they ask for it. It does not need to come from a tap. This helps people to space out their drinks and not become intoxicated quickly, which reduces the risk of crime and disorder occurring.

What is meant by “reasonably available” is a question of fact; for example, it may not be reasonable to expect free water to be available in premises for which the water supply had temporarily been lost because of a broken mains supply and where no alternative (for example, bottled water) is available.

In this section, the term ‘customer’ has its plain English definition.

So basically - if you serve alcohol, you have to have drinking water available for free in normal conditions. Since 2014, any licensed premises refusing is in breach of the law, no matter what their area manager advises...

JassyRadlett · 12/02/2017 17:37

Sorry, meant to quote from this bit of Sans's post...

Some licences require it but most don't

Which is incorrect.

Original poster

Shaddrack · 12/02/2017 17:49

does not friend follow the hard drink, soft drink, hard drink, soft drink protocol for avoiding getting shit arsed?

Not on this occasion no! I think she probably would have been happy to pay for a bottle of water tbh he was just so against her having water it seemed odd!

She has spoken to the landlord, it's a new landlord but the same staff. He said she should have been given water, another member of bar staff said she would have provided a glass of water of she'd asked her so it was just this barman being a twat
Hope he gets told!

OP posts:

SansComic · 13/02/2017 06:29

JassyRadlett

I said "ex". I haven't worked in the industry for over a decade.

cdtaylornats
The licensing conditions say that water must be available it says nothing about a glass or serving it. Free potable water is probably available in the toilets from the taps.

I would love this to be correct.

I think we all know what kind of customers demand free things and start quoting random bits of law.

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