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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

NHS IVF policy change

455 replies

Bambamrubblesmum · 11/02/2017 17:58

Have you seen this?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/rip-ivf-nhs-cuts-to-fertility-treatment-will-deny-thousands-parenthood-a6717326.html

I can see both sides of the argument but AIBU to feel very sad that it's come to this Sad

OP posts:
user1486841477 · 11/02/2017 21:33

It's sad but I completely agree with it.

Having a baby is a want not a need. It should never have been available on the NHS. It would be great to be able to give ivf on the NHS but considering the lack of funds it's just immoral to keep it the way it is.

There are far far more important things for that money to be spent on.

OwlinaTree · 11/02/2017 21:34

No worries cup.

NoMudNoLotus · 11/02/2017 21:35

YABU.

The NHS was not created for interventions like IVF .

I chose to pay for my IVF. Did it cripple us financially ? Yes. Do I resent it ? No.

The amount of couples who enter into IVF when it is free on the NHS , and then who later go on to split up annoys me.

People would think more carefully about it if they had to pay.

AgathaMystery · 11/02/2017 21:37

I may be totally wrong but I don't think IVF success rates have changed much in the past 25yrs. I think they hover around 30%...? Which is really low and is an incredible cost to the NHS.

I work in a trust where we are so broke they asked us to stop changing patient bed linen daily (we did not comply obviously).

But for anyone in doubt of how desperate things are in the NHS today: There is not enough money for clean sheets each day.

Tatlerer · 11/02/2017 21:39

I had one round of IVF and two FETs on the NHS before switching to a private clinic where the third and final FET produced DD.
Looking back, we should never have used the NHS. We didn't need to financially and quite frankly it was a crap experience anyway. Our whole healthcare system needs a rethink.

worriedmum100 · 11/02/2017 21:44

nomud can you actually link to any statistics to support that point?

Perhaps only rich couples should be allowed to have children (and be allowed to separate)?

Or perhaps (if there are figures to support your comment which I doubt) the utter desolation of infertility takes its toll on some couples?

Way to go with the empathy. Hmm

user0000000001 · 11/02/2017 21:47

It's sad but I completely agree with it.

Having a baby is a want not a need. It should never have been available on the NHS. It would be great to be able to give ivf on the NHS but considering the lack of funds it's just immoral to keep it the way it is.

There are far far more important things for that money to be spent on.

Do you/will you have kids?

Did you/will you pay to have them privately rather than rely on NHS maternity services???

user1486841477 · 11/02/2017 21:53

Yes I have a son. He was unplanned is never chose to have him.

I actiually did go private.

tigerdog · 11/02/2017 21:54

user, in that case I hope you'd be happy to pay for your own maternity care too, if bringing a child into the world is just a want.

no mud that's great that you are happy with your choice but it doesn't mean that no one should get a chance to have their fertility treatment funded. Also, it seems very unfair (and faintly ridiculous) to expect a higher standard of relationship from those who need to have IVF. No one should bring a child into shitty unstable relationship, IVF or otherwise, but you can't expect that a medical diagnosis of infertility suddenly makes you a saint whose relationship is better than most of the general population.

I think it's a shame that there is a 'I can't have it so neither should you mentality' out there, even from those who have had treatment. Healthcare needs shouldn't put people into huge amounts of debt, and just because it does somewhere else doesn't mean it's ok here.

The NHS can't cope because it is underfunded - that is the really immoral issue right now.

user0000000001 · 11/02/2017 21:56

Yes I have a son. He was unplanned is never chose to have him.

I actiually did go private.

Sure.

And presumably you are of the opinion that everyone else should do the same and no one should be able to utilise the NHS in any way when having children??

NastyWoman · 11/02/2017 22:07

Hey icy I was on the bored thread a while ago under another name. Just wanted to say that I was so pleased things went well for you.

NoMud, do you really think that many people have ivf without really thinking about it? Cos I doubt it. You don't just wander into your friendly local fertility clinic on a whim to be welcomed with open arms and whizzed straight through to treatment immediately. You have a lot of investigations and a lot of delay and most people have to fight and argue and chase things up for years before you get to even see the fertility docs. If a child is born maybe some people do regret parenthood or find that it is much harder than they expected and it ends their relationship, but I'd think that the whole process of getting there through IVF would require you to really think about parenthood a lot more than for the non barren couples!

ImYourMama · 11/02/2017 22:18

This is very difficult to say, but if an individual or couple needed IVF and couldn't afford to save up for it (at least one round), then how could they afford the associated costs of any resulting baby? Maternity leave, childcare costs and general increase in outgoings will outweigh the cost of IVF fairly quickly.

Although it's still incredibly sad to see the choice taken away for some, it's better than taking away drugs for cancer patients, mental health services and emergency medicine

YippieKayakOtherBuckets · 11/02/2017 22:22

Mama this has been addressed upthread. I was fortunate to conceive my DC naturally. At no point has anybody asked me to write a cheque for a lump sum in order to keep them.

Children are expensive but the costs are ongoing. Most people would struggle to lay their hands on the kind of ready cash that you need for IVF at £5k a pop.

ImYourMama · 11/02/2017 22:24

Also wanted to add, any cosmetic surgery that is not reconstructive, cosmetic dentistry, gastric bands and other 'optional treatments' should also be removed from NHS offerings

ImYourMama · 11/02/2017 22:29

Yippee I know what you're saying but saving over a year (whilst still trying naturally) would essentially mimic the financial strain of maternity leave, if you can't afford one, the other should also be reconsidered

briony77 · 11/02/2017 22:30

I totally agree with the previous posters who have picked up on the "having children is a want not a right" comments, and have suggested that maternity care should not be offered on the NHS either. You cannot argue that infertility treatment is a luxury but maternity care is not.

For what it's worth, I absolutely do believe that maternity care should be provided by the NHS, but I strongly believe that infertility treatment should be too. One does not trump the other in terms of rights.

sycamore54321 · 11/02/2017 22:35

@AgathaMystery
I work in a trust where we are so broke they asked us to stop changing patient bed linen daily (we did not comply obviously).

But for anyone in doubt of how desperate things are in the NHS today: There is not enough money for clean sheets each day."

Off topic a bit but I don't see this as a necessarily outrageous cost reduction proposal. If a patient is occupying a bed more than one day, doesn't have any infectious disease and the linens aren't soiled, why not keep them more than one day?

MiniCooperLover · 11/02/2017 22:39

Inyourmama, the two costs can't even be compared. Private IVF is up to £8K a try depending on the kind you need and I know we didn't spend anywhere near that on our amazing son once he was actually here (that we only have thanks to the NHS IVF system). I only know the private costs due to our 2 failed attempts to give him a sibling !!!

Olympiathequeen · 11/02/2017 22:39

It's very difficult but I suppose if you don't have children you would both be working so should be able to pay towards fertility treatment? If you can't afford treatment can you afford to have children? Maybe if everyone contributed who needed ivf the price could be less than private ivf and could be done via the NHS. I think there are areas of NHS care that we should pay for, such as not turning up for appointments.

Sorry it's very harsh but the NHS doesnt have limitless funds. I do think more effort should be made to collect fees from health tourists.

Serin · 11/02/2017 22:39

It's not the NHS or the government that are at fault here, it's the IVF clinics themselves.

They charge vastly inflated prices and yet they are continually feted as heroes in the media.

Sad Sad Sad

MiniCooperLover · 11/02/2017 22:43

We were fortunate enough to try privately for a sibling (unsuccessfully) because parents gave us the money after we had our son. But the private clinics were no better than the NHS ones. Infertility is an issue that need help and anyone who says otherwise is just trying to goad 😔

DontTouchTheMoustache · 11/02/2017 22:44

It is sad but yesterday I signed a petition calling for all children to be given the meningitis b vaccine for free (as children over a certain age currently not eligible) and parents need to find over a £100 with two doses needed. Given a choice between the two I would say free vaccinations.

icy121 · 11/02/2017 22:45

@nastywoman - thanks! Over halfway now and so far so good. Our £13k, 3 years and my countless litres of tears hopefully hasn't all been in vain...

@briony77 yes to your post, and actually we should take it a step further. If having a child is a want not a need, then beyond maternity care,I expect all parents would also be happy to pay for their kids' ongoing inoculations, healthcare, dentistry, eye tests, education, school meals.... they won't want or need child tax credits or 15 hours of free childcare because why should a lifestyle choice be a taxable benefit. Kids clothes can be subject to VAT too for that matter. Want not a need innit.

icy121 · 11/02/2017 22:50

@Olympiathequeen "if you don't have children you should both be working" - yes we all pretty much are and we're paying lots of taxes to help fund everyone else's offspring/"lifestyle choices". Why should the bar be set so much higher for those struggling to conceive? What about down and outs who earn fuck all and have lots of kids easily but can't afford to pay for them - the NHS can't afford that either.

tigerdog · 11/02/2017 22:55

Couldn't agree more icy. Drives me round the bend that those with a medical diagnosis of infertility (not just a want but a medical issue) have to reach higher standards on almost everything in the eyes of so many people to be entitled to medically recognised treatment. It simply isn't fair.