NHS IVF policy change

[Bambamrubblesmum]

Have you seen this?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/rip-ivf-nhs-cuts-to-fertility-treatment-will-deny-thousands-parenthood-a6717326.html

I can see both sides of the argument but AIBU to feel very sad that it's come to this

U2 us very right, its the same with a family friend. I actually think it wont be until he goes and attacks someone or does something seen as dangerous that he will get any help

yup, MH is right slap bang at the bottom of the list

i was told if the man/woman had any children then the partner would lose their nhs go

df has 3 in 20's, none live with us and i lost my nhs go

very unfair but as i said previously if you want a baby that much you will least save for one cycle, by overtime, loans, credit cards nt having weekely takeaway/yearly hliday r even daily coffee from shop

There isn't nearly as much abuse of the system as the government would like you to think. The funding is wasted on projects that will never work and middle managers who are placed in jobs that don't need to exist. I'm quite digusted but sadly unsurprised that some people think they are more worthy because they pay more tax. Fortunately, the NHS does not yet pass moral judgements on those who walks through the doors.

Abso-bloody-lutely. I wish we could have an honest discourse about this. Let's go for means tested co-pay and social insurance options rather than the current back door privatization.

I agree with this 100%. Very sad that IVF is on the chopping block, but hardly surprising. Bring on the German model.

Another-That is not far off what happened to my husband either. I'm glad you are in a better place

Some people are desperate for the NHS to help them create a life. I and many others are desperate for the NHS to help us save one.

The NHS has to put saving people first and right now they can't do that well enough for many people.

U2 and as I said in an earlier posting, the NHS saved my life by funding my IVF treatment. No way would I have continued to live with the agony of infertility and no child.

I'm glad you were able to have IVF

If the argument is that everyone should get IVF because they might end up with MH issues or kill themselves if they don't have a child then I can't really get on board with that. If that was the case then we would need to give it to everyone. Including the women who are denied it because they have teenage step children or those who live in certain areas, and we never could afford to give it to everyone who needs it.

Would the NHS save a great deal on MH services if they gave IVF to everyone who wants it? I doubt it and that is how the NHS has to look at it. I can't imagine the cost if every woman who needed IVF was able to have it.

A lot of people are denied treatment for things that could lead to depression and MH illness. I see it often.

It's shit right now for so many people and we all wish it was different. I think it is heartbreaking that all women who need it can't get IVF and I think it is heartbreaking that people like my husband are walking around in utter agony with no real help.

@WayfaringStranger I can believe that. I've got a friend who consults for network rail and the waste and inefficiencies of that organisation are absolutely bloody scandalous. I imagine the NHS, being a far bigger beast, has layers and layers and layers of "support/professional services" staff who do fuck knows what. In my own capacity working in real estate asset management for a pension fund, the few times I've come across the NHS I've found their property team utterly incomprehensible. To find a person responsible for anything is nigh on impossible. once you're in a "professional services" you're onto a cushy number. There will be no expectation of you achieving any goals that are set out in business planning, any planning meetings will be talking shops that convene monthly, if you achieve anything then that's great but if you don't no one is going call you or the team out. I imagine that the NHS could lay off half of all professional/admin support staff and see no drop in performance. The NHS seem quite cagey about actual numbers but from this website it seems to me c 23.4% of employees are not clinical or clinical support. 2.6% are managers so there are 21%ish of administrators.

www.nhsemployers.org/news/2015/07/the-nhs-workforce-in-numbers

Problem is if you make that 11% of the NHS redundant you've got nearly 128,000 generally pretty unskilled people suddenly needing income support.

Then replicate this issue across other public sectors - - behind the frontline service providers (teacher SW fireman prison officer police etc) there will be a lot of office based time and money wasters. A whole industry of busy fools who are paid too much to do too little. There was a thread on here recently about a civil servant who was bored to shit in her new role and had literally nothing to do but turn up to work and wait to go home. U.K. Productivity is shit, and this is partly why.

All this waste, and they're cutting services. Fuck that - cut the non jobs.

Amummy - I am pleased 😁 And frankly relived that your IVF worked

But your case of being suicidal due to infertility is a rare one , you realize that ? Many women move on and choose other paths - or learn to accept it

And some stay bereaved and that's just really sad

Icy121 - its so fixable - and yes thousands of unemployed people will destabilize the economy

• but only for a while ?

U2 and as I said in an earlier posting, the NHS saved my life by funding my IVF treatment. No way would I have continued to live with the agony of infertility and no child

I'm sorry you had such a tough time. Do you mean you would have killed yourself if IVF hadn't worked though? As I understand it IVF is largely unsuccessful.

A PP said IVF came out of the NHS England specialised budget... it doesn't. It comes out of local CCG budgets, hence the postcode lottery.

I agree with the decision to cut ivf yet like others struggle to believe the money will go elsewhere in the NHS.

I have such mixed feelings about this. I was turned down for IVF, looked into adoption and was turned down for that too. I then got pregnant naturally, completely unplanned at 46, outside of a relationship, and if that hadn't happened I wouldn't have had children. I firmly, firmly believe less focus on IVF and more focus on adoption could solve a lot of society's problems, give childless couples/individuals an opportunity to be a parent, give children a family, reduce strain on the NHS etc. But I doubt it would be a popular solution.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that starting a family isn't as vital in terms of medical need as other things.

It sounds awful to say, but I think things like adoption and fostering should be considered before IVF. We eventually adopted our two boys and it was the best thing to ever happen to us. Why do people need to have a biological child? There are thousands of kids needing homes, why not adopt?

IVF should only be available if you can afford to pay for it privately. I don't really see why we should be paying for people to start families when there are people travelling 200 miles for cancer treatments.

We have to understand that the NHS can't offer everything. Things like IVF should be considered the same as cosmetic dentistry and plastic surgery that is done purely for cosmetic reasons - something that is only available if you pay for it yourself.

The other thing with fostering/adoption is maintaining a balance between ensuring potential parents are suitable without being overly picky. I was desperate to adopt about 6 years before I had DD and was turned down very quickly, given a whole list of reasons I wasn't suitable parent material. Oddly enough, nobody whipped that list out at the hospital when I had Lollie, but none of it had changed.

Not everyone can adopt

They have huge rules and fair enough as have to protect the children

Df and I looked into adoption after our 2nd private ivf failed. We had spent £12k

They went into our finances. Could we survive on one wage. Would I be a sahp rather then work

Delved into our relationship. Into failed ivf. The fact my mum died recently

And df smokes. Outside only. Never in house yet coz of this we were denied adoption of under 5

And even if df gave up that day , have to be smoke clear for 2yrs and no vapours either - and that would have taken him over 50

And can't adopt an under 5 over 50

So we scrimped and saved and took out loans for more ivf

I wouldn't say infertility would cause a mental breakdown - yes it bloody breaks your heart but I wouldn't kill myself over being childless and was for over 10yrs

and sometimes you just can't have what you want - but also feel if mental health is that fragile they shouldn't be able to adopt or have NHS ivf unless intense selling the way adoption panel did to us

I completely get that they have to protect children. My issue is more I think some of the things they flag are obsessive given the shortage of potential adoptive parents. Main criticism of my adoption application which was turned down 12 years ago was my lack of extended family. This was for adoption, ie very much planned. Yet 6 years later when I found out I was pregnant at 33 weeks, no one was even slightly bothered about how that might impact on my ability to parent. And that was finding out totally out of the blue 3 weeks before I actually had DD.

Are you really comparing the potential of never having a family to not having straight, whitened teeth?

Also, if you have been through the adoption process you should know that there aren't thousands of children just sitting around waiting to be adopted. Furthermore, many wonderful couples are turned down for adoption (for example, if they haven't fully moved on from the grief of infertility!) and others are simply not equipped to take on an adopted child (for example, there isn't one of them who could become a SAHP, or they don't feel capable of potentially taking on a severely physically or emotionally damaged child). Adoption is an amazing thing, but it's not a possibility for many people.

I know the PP said she adopted, but it does annoy me when those with biological children say that infertile people should adopt and are selfish for trying so hard to have a biological child. Hypocritical much?

Delphine - I heard this second hand so can't vouch that it is definitely true, but I was told that a couple who are friends of a friend and in professional jobs were pulled up on the fact they had "too many" books in their house and there were concerns it would put too much pressure on an adoptive child. WTAF?

That was never mentioned flatwhite, but it is possible my books put them off on that basis. Honestly wouldn't surprise me. I was told I was unsuitable because I had no extended family and worked full time at the time of applying. They dug right back into my relationship history, brought up my own parents etc. Both whom were long gone at the time. I didn't even pass the initial assessment. I then found out I was pregnant at nearly 47, turned out I was 33 weeks but unclear how far along I was at the time other than a long way gone. I had an unknown number of weeks to prepare to have a child and my first thought was based on my adoption experience SS would be round. I was also pretty traumatised by the whole thing at the time. Nope. Totally fine, because biological baby. It makes no sense.

That's madness. Not that I think for a second they should have been round because you had done something wrong, but if there was ever a time someone should have been checking you had all the support you needed...that was the time!!! I really hope everything went as well as possible for you, given you had such little time to prepare.

I'm so sorry you had such an awful experience when it came to adoption. It's terrible that you were doing so many positive things and showing you were a responsible person, yet you were turned down for having the temerity to have your parents pass away...yet any old crack head can get knocked up and SS will battle to keep the child with the parent.

Why do people need to have a biological child? There are thousands of kids needing homes, why not adopt?

Do you ask the same question to people who don't have fertility problems? There are a lot more of them. It's just as much the responsibility of fertile people to consider adoption, but for some reason it's always the infertile who have it constantly suggested to them.

If biology is as irrelevant as you say, why do fertile couples so rarely adopt instead of having a child with their own genes?

Either your arguments apply to both the infertile and the fertile, or to neither.

Why not adopt?

I don't want to. Why don't you?

Sorry missed the bit about you have actually adopted. In that case surely you can understand why it might not be for everyone?