NHS IVF policy change

[Bambamrubblesmum]

Have you seen this?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/rip-ivf-nhs-cuts-to-fertility-treatment-will-deny-thousands-parenthood-a6717326.html

I can see both sides of the argument but AIBU to feel very sad that it's come to this

Actually health tourism is a very similar cost per year as IVF. So if one has to be scrapped why is the other allowed to continue.

Another official narrative swallowed, I take it you also thought that the government was spot on about its 7 day a week NHS on no extra money was a good way to go, well done on having little/no original thoughts

It's one of those isn't it billsykesdog people turn up in need of emergency treatment or become ill soon after arriving and there's no time to dither so it goes ahead.
Unlike IVF where you're on a waiting list, there's no immediate need and IVF candidates have to go through rigourius tests and vetting before treatment is agreed

just, can you actually give any information to back up that not being true rather than just being rude?

You just can't turn away or say no to someone in need of immediate medical treatment

No you can't. But you can check people have adequate insurance before they enter the country and it's not all made up of emergency treatment. An awful lot of it is routine treatment.

America manages to charge people from other countries and so do plenty of foreign countries so why is it so difficult? We're just being squeamish. It can and should be done. Where savings can be made they should be made. Maybe then we can pay for IVF.

We are in a very very mixed London area with tons of new immigrants and all the hospitals have noticed about the health tourism issues and check out the non urgent cases which is perfectly appropriate.

I see, I hadn't realised how much was routine, definitely should have checks in place to identify those cases and either decline or insist on payment up front

Also depends on the area. I am from Northumberland with something like 97% white non immigrant community so you will only once in a blue moon have someone who has no entitlement showing up at a hospital whereas where I live it is a huge regular risk so you need more checks.

'I have PCOS and yes I am lucky to have had three healthy children without assistance, but there has to be natural selection in any species and to override this makes me nervous.'

Words really do fail me sometimes.

I really wish some people could live for a day with the feelings of utter despair, hopelessness, emptiness and sadness that infertility can bring, in an attempt to give them a dose of empathy as to what infertile people live with 365 days a year.

Cuntish crap like the above (esp spewed by someone with 3 kids who has.no.fucking.idea and does.not.get.it) just adds to the already shit hand some people are dealt. As if it wasn't hard enough.

I do wonder if putting a stop to IVF will just increase demand and cost to mental health services therefore making any savings cancelled out

It's a shame and mean only rich people can do it

Bit the first cycle rarely works - seriously anyone I know that did it room a few goes - so for that reason it feels like a waste as the odds are so very low ?

Still - sad

It's really sad, but with things as they are, they will be looking to cut costs in areas that many don't see as necessary. I totally empathise infertility whether conceiving or keeping the pregnancy is hard, in the current times they have to make the cuts in line with balancing the books.

I personally feel that money is wasted as adequate testing isn't done. So making sure there's no obvious risk of miscarriage should be sought before a couple go on to do their cycle. This can be testing blood clotting, TSH levels, maintaining progesterone support as standard till 12 weeks. Possibly as far as testing for NK cells, which if you pay for the test is £200. Doing everything possible to try and ensure a positive outcome.

VladmirsPoutine

What did you want the hospital to do? Send them back?

I haven't read the whole thread but how do we feel about means testing NHS IVF treatment?

I know the NHS is supposed to be for everyone but I wonder if parts of it could be means tested and this is one of them?

IVF is a pretty ineffective way of attempting to treat the symptoms of infertility rather than address and cure the underlying causes.

Re health tourism: the Daily Fail's shaming of that bereaved mother of quads was despicable. But I think the problem could be solved by requiring that people have comprehensive and adequate health insurance before they are admitted to the country. Friend of mine who is a medic in Oxford tells me there's also an issue of wealthy American students going to there to 'study' and then developing congenital conditions.

IVF can have brutal effects for women as well, and even Sir Robert Winston who pioneered it as treatment is saying that it is being over-used.

Research is beginning to indicate that children born via IVF may be at greater risk of health problems. It's an uncomfortable truth that makes many understandably angry and defensive but I do sometimes wonder whether there was a bit of a Jurassic Park mentality when scientists were first developing the technique. There is so much about human physical development that we simply don't know.

None of that makes it any easier for those struggling with infertility however. Of course you are going to grab at a lifeline if it's offered and want it to be free.

I have infertility issues and getting treatment (not inUK). I am not sure if I want to stay alive if I will never have a child. I am not saying this to be dramatic, I very seriously mean it. It is that depressing.

I work, pay taxes, don't smoke, don't drink. Why can a heroin addict get help and for me it would be a luxuryin the UK? It is my life which is at stake. The addict has not worked, burgled, mugged and whatever and he gets it all.

Why not stop to help drug addicts and cancer treatments for people who keep on smoking.

Luckily I am in Holland where I get at least 3 ivf treatments. Also I have the money to pay for 8 treatments myself. I am lucky. Thank god I am not poor and in the UK.

I do think that all tourists should be he led put before being allowed into the country, enduring ghey have paid for good medical cover.
The nhs should not be used by tourists.

When my friend needed medical care in the USA, his insurance documents were taken from him to be scrutinised then his credit card was charged with $1000 just as a back up.
All this was before he was given any kind of treTment what so ever and he was in agony.
The same should happen here.

I totally agree that health tourism does need to be tackled but I sometimes feel that it's more of a convenient scapegoat when there are so many other areas that cause money to be draining out of the NHS and the government seem to be failing to come up with any meaningful plan. It's like it's an easy let off for them.

Unless you have had to face infertility you have no fucking clue how hard it is. Have never sworn on here, but reading crap like a child is a luxury, natural selection etc. Fuck off. No position to judge if you have conceived naturally. I am truly thankful that my one attempt at ivf on the NHS worked.

Yanbu it is very sad and heartbreaking for some.

Personally I'd rather soo the postcode lottery addressed so everyone everywhere is entitled to the same. I'd also rather costs were recouped by those who don't turn up to appointments and tests and by those injured committing criminal acts (admittedly small).

I'd they did decide to cut ivf I would hope that the nhs would negotiate some kind of deal so people could pay privately while at an nhs hospital but not through the nose and not all at once.

I do hope it wouldn't come to that though.

This is deeply saddening. IVF is used to treat medical issues - often undiagnosed. Just because it is reproductive organs needing treatment doesn't mean that there is no medical need. There is no hesitation in treating other organs, even if they have non-life-threatening issues. It is NOT a luxury. Also, IVF is about the CHANCE to have a child - that normal healthy couples have every month. How heartless do you have to be not just to deny people a child, but even the possibility of having one?

In addition, IVF is time-critical, the comments about it being non-urgent are misguided. Efficacy of IVF is much better the younger the patient, so keeping people waiting around for months or years is incredibly wasteful of funds.

I have a daughter as the result of NHS IVF treatment - successful on the first cycle, undertaken after over three and a half years of TTC. My endometriosis (diagnosed 3.5 years into TTC) was so severe that IVF was the only realistic option, and I am immeasurably grateful that our treatment was funded and successful. In fact, my pregnancy and subsequent breastfeeding had such a positive effect on my fertility, that I conceived my second daughter naturally. So one NHS-funded IVF cycle has resulted in two pregnancies and two live children. Pretty good use of funds, I'd say.

My heartfelt sympathies to those people who are suffering with fertility problems, it is a horrific thing to live with.

Natural selection? Jesus Christ. Would you go on a thread about withdrawing cancer treatment and suggest that people shouldn't be entitled to treatment because of natural selection?

Threads like this make me so sad because there is so much ignorance about infertility, IVF and adoption. It's just depressing.

As someone who managed to conceive naturally, I would be more than happy to pay extra tax to allow people the opportunity to try IVF and have the chance to have a family. We pay for people who end up in hospital/sick for reasons that are totally their fault (check out A&E on a Friday night!) so why do people resent their taxes going towards helping people who are unable to have a family through no fault of their own? Before those people who had children easily, and who liken not being able to have children to not being able to afford a fancy holiday, start banging on about how people don't have a "right" to a child and how infertility "isn't an illness": Infertility really is a horrific illness with life changing emotional and physical consequences and so we should do what we can to help people suffering.

I've got PCOS, am not responding to Clomid and will need IVF. I don't give a flying fuck if sone idiots think IVF is unnatural as long as it gives me a baby.

I think it is so sad that decisions like this need to be made. I believe that the government need to prioritize spending on the NHS but they won't. Even my right wing hrt dh believes taxation should be increased for this purpose.
The postcode lottery is horrific. I watched a 98 Year old receiving treatment for a condition my mum had. It was not available in our area. She was on the waiting list for a more invasive surgery but was turned down in the end as she had at least one TIa that went undiagnosed. When she had a full blown stroke she wasn't scanned for 24 hours.
Re IVF we had fertility issues. As the problem was with dh we didn't qualify for IVF only IUI.
I was so grateful that my tubes were intact so we could have had iui. Thankfully we didn't need treatment in the end and went on to have 3 girls.
Those 2 years of trying for a child were the worst 2 years of my life. I was definitely depressed and anyone who says fertility treatment is a luxury has no idea.