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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Elderly parent situation

58 replies

mineallmine · 10/02/2017 14:44

Trying to give all info in order not to drip feed. Will also try to be as factual as possible. I don't love my MIL so am always careful that my reactions may not be fair.
DH is from a family of 4, all now have their own children. Our family is the youngest. PIL moved abroad for retirement to a sunny climate approx 15 years ago. They own their foreign property and two rental properties here with no mortgage. They each have a pension, MIL's is small, FIL's is quite good and have the income from the two rental properties. They are frugal and always have the poor mouth. MIL is always talking about how expensive it is to live where they do (EU southern country, not known to be expensive but I can't refute her claims.) If you visit them, which I no longer do, she doesn't want you to use the washing machine because water and electricity are so expensive there.
FIL is suffering now from early dementia and also has physical problems which I won't go into out of loyalty to DH who wouldn't like it discussed. He was an utter gentleman and I am very fond of him. But his illness means that he now needs care in a daily basis. Not all day, just needs someone to come in each day for a couple of hours to help him wash etc. MIL has been dropping hints that the 4 children should pay for this care.
I spoke to DH about this last night and said that I felt MIL was preparing them all before she suggests they pay for the help. DH's response was that he feels that we should pay. He said if it was my parents, I would pay and he would not object.
He's right that I would pay if my parents needed it but the situations are very different. My parents own their house but don't have any income apart from state pension and they have given us every bit of money they have ever saved (many tens of thousands over the years, they have been very generous) so I feel if they needed it, it would only be fair to give back to them.
PIL have to have more disposable income than us. The income from their rental properties is over €2k a month (which is taxed). We have a mortgage and a child in private school and another child with SEN who currently gets therapies from the HSE (poor relation of UK's NHS) but there's a limit to what she can get and we will in the near future have to get private help for her. We have good medical insurance but it's still expensive. We are not on the breadline but not terribly high earners- combined income of approx €70k annually. We don't have enough left each month to save money.
i don't think it would be reasonable of MIL to ask because I think they are able to afford it, either now out of their income or by selling one of their rental properties. The other 3 children are all in different circumstances and I don't know what their responses will be but I can hazard a guess based on previous conversations. 2 of them are likely to not want PIL to sell a property as house prices here are rising and they already have an eye on inheritance.
So am I being unfair? Should we pay? I know this is coming. This is how MIL operates. She drops little hints and then waits for her children to pick up on them and offer.

I've edited so much of this post as I'm writing it because I'm trying very hard to not put my emotions into it. Im going to let DH read this post whatever the responses because I know I have a tendency to be negative about his mother and this is a big issue and I really want to be fair to them and to us.

OP posts:
savagehk · 10/02/2017 15:29

If, as you say, you expect that their income well exceeds their living costs; is there any way of checking this? Perhaps offering to see what help could be available but having access to bank statements etc to see? If they're not spending their income anyway, it seems daft that you'd have to pay for it. (Thinking long term now might be the time to consider power-of-attorney and so on as well)

Dragongirl10 · 10/02/2017 15:30

YANBU

They are clearly financially able so should use their investments to pay for care, that's what they are for.

If they were truly poor they should either move home to take advantage of the free care, or have a meeting with the family and allow you all to offer what you feel you can, or not if you do not wish too.....

You are not duty bound if they have investments to use..

JaniceBattersby · 10/02/2017 15:32

YANBU. There's no way you should have to pay for what is ultimately their lifestyle choice. They could always come home and get free healthcare.

Surely your DH wouldn't just hand over pots of your joint money without your permission though?Confused

Original poster
mineallmine · 10/02/2017 15:32

In the interest of being fair, they once gave all their children a substantial sum of money (I know how lucky we've been with all this money having been given to us!) They came into a big sum of money some years ago which is how they came to have three properties with no mortgage.

And in the same breath as dropping hints to us, MIL is talking about retiling her ensuite which was only done 7 year ago. And a couple of years ago they extended their sunny property. But they have no money. Grrrr

OP posts:
HistoriaTrixie · 10/02/2017 15:33

From which part of your current budget is your DH thinking this money would come to pay for FILs carers? That's what I'd be wanting to know. If he'd like to give up a hobby or nights down at the pub or whatever that's one thing but I think it would be unfair of him to decide that the whole family would be doing with less when it doesn't have to be that way. If MIL/FIL were unable to afford this care themselves I'd feel differently but it seems they can well afford it. It's wrong for MIL to be hinting/asking for others to pay for it and it would be wrong for your DH to volunteer.

Ewock · 10/02/2017 15:35

I am going to be blunt but no you should not pay. If your pil could not afford it then I would say yes, offer financial support if you can afford it. However they have 2 rental properties which they could sell to raise capital, and even without this they have a decent monthly income. Your pil can afford to pay themselves and I can not believe she is hinting, shocking behaviour. My mil is in a residential home as she requires a lot of care and she would never expect us or my bil to pay.

Original poster
mineallmine · 10/02/2017 15:36

No he wouldn't do it without my permission but it would cause a lot of tension between us because I ultimately just don't think it's fair when they have the means to pay themselves.

OP posts:
user1484578224 · 10/02/2017 15:37

no you shouldn't pay. They have made choices, they have money.end of

Shutupanddance1 · 10/02/2017 15:41

YANBU..

For what it's worth my mums a carer in Ireland and the HSE is getting really stingy with 'home carers' etc so please don't rely on this as a failsafe. They are cutting under the radar people's hours this year.

Mrsdraper1 · 10/02/2017 15:41

Are you in the UK or Ireland? I just wondered as the exchange rate atm would make it even more expensive if you are in the UK. Obvs if you are in Rep. Ireland ignore me.
I think pp was right in saying there has to be open communication ie everyone needs to sit down and discuss what he needs and how much it's going to cost. Everyone needs the facts before committing.
People may want to but then find out it's far more expensive than they expected.
Alternatively it may be cheaper in which case PIL can afford to fund it out of their disposable income.
I think you need to say to your DH that you are ok with it in principle, but can't say you agree unless it's all done properly with all the facts presented before committing.

Alconleigh · 10/02/2017 15:42

You're completely in the right OP. The idea of baby boomers, the most financially fortunate generation there has ever been and likely ever will be (not all of them of course, but at the wider level and certainly your PILs judging from all the property) expecting the younger generation to pick up the tab for their care is unjust.

I appreciate it is difficult to navigate of course, and your husband will obviously want to make sure his parents are secure and well cared for. It's tricky; can you get together with the other siblings and partners to discuss and understand everyone's position, before the request comes?

toastyarmadillo · 10/02/2017 15:44

I suspect that because they aren't on the breadline and have funds to pay for care they wouldn't receive free care in the uk either. I was recently looking into carers for my grandma and she has too much in savings to qualify, it's only free on the nhs once your personal savings are under a certain amount. I believe the house you live in is excluded but all other property is classed as investment and therefore personal wealth. Obviously I may be incorrect but worth properly investigating, before encouraging a move back to the uk!

Regardless no you should not pay for their care, they should use there savings and sell properties if they aren't able to make sufficient profit renting them out then they sell them and realise the cash.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 10/02/2017 15:45

I think your kids should come first.

Your in-laws have the £££, your MIL just doesn't want to spend it. This is why I would increase IHT - it would hopefully encourage more people to spend their money (including on their kids if they want to) while they're alive, instead of leaving it to their kids when they're gone.

Sadly I can't see this ending well either. Sorry OP.

Hellochicken · 10/02/2017 15:46

Well I would have thought they could pay for it from the rental properties and pension.
I dont think selling a house is necessarily the best option as it is part of their income.
It sounds like there will be more care needs to come.

If they say they cannot afford the current care on their income I think it will be hard for your DH not to chip in with siblings.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 10/02/2017 15:46

Also, if you pay for their care (and your parents' care) who pays for yours? Are you expecting your privately educated children to get good jobs and pay for you?

ApplePaltrow21 · 10/02/2017 15:50

In the interest of being fair, they once gave all their children a substantial sum of money (I know how lucky we've been with all this money having been given to us!)

So in the interests of being fair, you made sure to mention how your parents had given you money but didn't mention how his parents actually gave you money Hmm

How very... fair of you.

If this is how you are fair with your DH, no wonder he's defensive. You clearly want to win the argument at all costs but the only really good advice here is grannygoggles. You all need an actual plan which actually involves putting on your big girl pants, your DH putting on his big boy pants and actually communicating effectively with his siblings and parents about what the next 20 years are going to look like. Go with him if you like but if you are giving your DH the same brand of fairness as you are exhibiting here, he will never stop being defensive about his parents.

PitilessYank · 10/02/2017 15:50

I have four children, and as far as I am concerned, financial support should flow in one direction only, from me to them, never the reverse.

I want my children to use their money fulfilling their hopes and dreams an supporting their partners and children.

I would consider myself a bit of a failure if my children had to support me in that way. (No offense to anyone who does support his/her parents, I know that circumstances do arise where it is necessary.)

TheClacksAreDown · 10/02/2017 15:53

It also makes little economic sense for the children to pay. If the parents pay it may decrease the size of their estate. But if the children pay you could end up with either the money "saved" by parents being burnt up on nursing fees or having to pay inheritance tax on the money. So economically Better they incur their own costs.

diddl · 10/02/2017 15:54

They own three properties & are asking for money-I can't quite compute that tbh.
That said, the fact that you would pay for your parents muddies it a bit though-they could have kept their money & you didn't have to accept it, as could ILs.

So I think if you would pay for one then you should for the other.

averylongtimeago · 10/02/2017 15:55

I wouldn't count on them being entitled to free care from the state here btw, MiL had to pay a contribution for her carers, and care homes etc are means tested, not sure what the cut off point is, but the state can and does insist the elderly' s house is sold.

Also, I don't know about other EU countries, but in France the family has to pay towards the care home of the parents.

Yanbu, the parents should pay from the rental of the two houses.

CharlieDimmocksbosoms · 10/02/2017 15:59

Could you reverse it and DH and siblings say to mil " we know dad is going to need expensive care and we'd like to make a proposition. "
Now she is listening.

" we know you are doing so well with the rented houses and other incomes and we know you are so lovely to want to leave all us children money and property when the time comes but we have all decided we would like to forego that money so it can be spent on dad "

seven201 · 10/02/2017 16:01

Yanbu

kaitlinktm · 10/02/2017 16:03

You're completely in the right OP. The idea of baby boomers, the most financially fortunate generation there has ever been and likely ever will be

Are they baby boomers though? The OP doesn't state their age (unless I missed it) but her own parents are in their 80s so I presumed her ILs were similar. My parents are 88 and 84 and I'm in my 60s so doesn't that make me the baby boomer? Looks round in vain for all this financial fortune.

isadoradancing123 · 10/02/2017 16:03

You are obviously in Ireland as you mention the h s e. No they have enough income coming in, you should not commit to paying

TataEs · 10/02/2017 16:11

i'm with you.
they have the means to pay, they just don't want to.
it would be different if, like your parents, they didn't have the means. then id say you should look to offer what u could without compromising your children's security.