Is my husband BU?

[GiveMeVegemite]

My husband has stopped my mother seeing her grandchildren. My husband and I have 3 kids and my mum used to see them every week and used to help with school drop offs and pickups.

My mum has always been (in her words) a storyteller. I would say pathological liar, my husband would say sociopath. I have known since my childhood and recognised that she lies to everyone however I thought it was mostly innocent and just thought it was part of her personality. My husband thinks she does it to manipulate people.

Basically there have been a lot of things that were innocent lies and a lot of things that were quite hurtful, the worst being when my father died in November last year (who I had never met) and I found out she had been lying about him too and if she had told me the truth about my father I might have had someone who wanted to be a part of my life instead of me constantly trying to make contact with someone who wanted nothing to do with me. She lied about my father because the man who she said was my father had provided her with a house in a posh area (she told him we were his kids). But apparently its not him and it was some other guy who died 7 years ago. I was heartbroken. She also told me when I was a teenager if I ever tried to contact him she would never speak to me again, so I didn't try and contact him until I had a family of my own and felt it was very important and by then it was too late.

Within the last year she has told me she has cancer (she didn't), told me my sister has Hepatitis C (she doesn't), taken my son out and left him standing at the top of an escalator not knowing what to do and then she told him not to tell me (he's 4), told me my aunty is palliative and has 10 weeks to live (she is recovering from cancer and is not palliative) among loads of other not serious lies (about her job, her friends etc).

My mother and I are currently not speaking and haven't spoken since early December (when the person I thought was my father passed away). But i am willing to forgive her and just know that most of what she says is lies and for her to see the boys as long as I am with them, but my husband says she can't be in a position of trust with them because she could hurt them mentally. Is he being unreasonable?

Doesn't sound like she even thinks her actions were unacceptable though? In which case I'm with your husband. Have you had counselling yourself?

Gallivanting The news about my dad honestly was the breaking point for me. Up until then I had been fine to acknowledge to myself she was lying, but not get angry or upset about it (apart from the cancer lie which really affected me, obviously).

We haven't spoken since we had a MASSIVE fight and I told her she needed to get therapy if she was going to see the boys again.

I have applied for my birth records to try and get some clarity on who was there at my birth, because I don't even know if the other guy she said was my father is my father, it might be someone completely different, I can't believe a word she says.

She was is always on the defensive and never admits she has done any wrong. When I confronted her about her lies she called them 'exaggerations' and that she is a 'storyteller'.....

I agree with your husband 100%. DH and I have stopped my father's wife (not my Mum) from seeing our children as she has been manipulative, told lies, etc. This has led to my father no longer having contact with us unless we allow his wife to see our children. This has gone on for years now but we feel that it is better for our children not to know her so we have stood firm. You have to do what is best for your children. You have my sympathy, it is a very difficult situation

Thank you all so much. I felt really bad for her not getting to see them, but now I can see it is for the best

She's a fantasist an probably has a personality disorder. It means she will always be this way, so your dc won't be protected from her anti-social behaviour when in her care. Neither will you.

You grew up with it and children think their parents' know best, until they become adults themselves or if something massively abusive happens. That's why your brain normalised this behaviour - you knew no different, until your dh explained how anti-social her behaviour is.

I would say her lies are all about controlling others and projecting what she thinks is the best image to others of herself. It means she is ego centric more than 'normal' and thus anti-social. People are secondary to her own needs. That will include her children (you) and your children.

Sadly, all contact you have with her will always be like this. She won't visit a psychiatrist as she likely thinks her way is best and you are all abnormal. Someone only gets mental health help if they are forced to (sectioned) or if they choose to because it is having a negative affect on their emotions. She may well be thinking she is 'happy' being like this, and that you are all unfair for not accepting her being more powerful than you.

I'm adding my voice to those who say your DH is not being unreasonable in this case.

If you could take a step back and picture someone else in your situation, what would you advise them to do? Stay in touch with this pathological liar? Cut ties where possible? Go completely no-contact?

If it was a 'friend' rather than a relative - what advice would you offer someone in your position?

I know we are talking about your mother here but from the few posts you have made, you have never known what is the truth when she has spoken at all throughout your life. Not even knowing who your father was???? That along would be a deal breaker for me to sever all ties to this person.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do.

She has managed to essentially brainwash you into accepting, for years, that it is normal to be massively lied to about both everyday things and hugely important things.

She has no business near your children, even supervised, as you are never going to be able to be next to her 100% of the time, and she is perfectly capable of telling them horrendous things about your and/or your husband. Don't put little children in that position.

Also, suspect what you are feeling is a natural consequence of her effectively robbing you of your father. It's possible she is not sure who your father is either, so she kept her options open. You're bound to feel anger as this abandonment by who you thought was your father was unnecessary, as you may not have been abandoned by your real father. However, I would say that with her personality dysfunction any father would have had to keep a distance from her thus you, so she would have ruined that relationship too. To keep control.

toptoe you are right. I always thought she lied to make herself look better, but you're analysis absolutely sums her up.

Look for the 'stately homes' thread - you'll find lots of posters on there who sadly had parents/parent who were mentally and emotionally damaging in some way. You may find some good advice from others who have had a sadly similar experience. It's comforting to know others go through such experiences too.

She has 3 failed marriages behind her and since her revelation about my father I have wondered if maybe she has no idea who my father is and just picked the best / richest option and forced him into paying for her house.

The sisters I considered half siblings growing up told me that our father always felt he had been deceived by her. I always took my mum's side as she told me he had run off with his housekeeper, but I bet it was her and not him.

It's not something she can control either - it usually develops in childhood and solidifies in adolescence, so by the time she became adult the brain was programmed to be self-centric and everyone else was to be distrusted and controlled. I presume she herself had dysfunctional parenting which caused her to develop this one-up sort of behaviour as a protective measure against abuse/seeing abuse happen in the home.

I found it helps to understand why your parent became this way so that you don't get stuck thinking it will change, hoping for something else.

You can also write a list of tactics she uses to control. A big one for her is to create lies to prevent people knowing the truth and thus having one up on them. She may also do other things, for example crying if something doesn't go her way. Trying to interfere with your life in small but significant ways, then getting upset and 'hurt' if you 'reject' her 'help'. Sending in the 'flying monkeys' (a relative on her side who tells you to apologise to her) if you don't do what she wants etc etc.

If you write a list of tactics she uses, you can be one step ahead. The only way to deal with it is to stop contact as soon as she behaves in an anti-social manner. And this might mean you stop seeing her for months at a time. Some posters don't see their parents again for years because they simply can't resist trying to control their lives and getting back into the old cycle of using their children to make themselves feel better.

Another thing to remember is that because she is your mother doesn't give her the right to cause you pain. She doesn't own you. You have your own right to a happy life. Parents are meant to nurture an independent, happy life and support when needed.

i've got a family member like this and i don't even want supervised contact between them and my DC in case it leads to them being exceptionally charming and then getting my dc into a position to manipulate. Is your mum also charming? i agree with your H too, although it's much harder when it's your family to enforce this.

if shes not willing to get help then no she cant see them

yes its prob a pesonality disorder but she cant see it-i could never forgive someone who lied about my father or cancer its just too much

sorry but sometimes you have to draw a line

It's quite possible that he was actually your father. You could ask your half siblings to do a dna test perhaps. But I would suggest you speak to a counsellor first and explore whether this is a good idea or not. Even if you do finally discover who your father was, you may still have a sense of loss as you spent so many years (as did they) not knowing and now they've passed you can't tell them and get their acknowlegdement.

She did tell me that her parents had never wanted a girl and only had her after one of their other sons died in a horrible accident (he poured boiling water on himself) and died age 3. They had another child (her) and wanted a son to replace the one they had lost. She has an older brother still living.

toptoe when we were having our massive fight in december she said to me, "why don't you ask your uncle that I'm a good person, they will tell you I'm a good person"...sending in the monkeys! She always thinks her way is best. Have an autistic son and she tries to make me leave him (he has bad separation anxiety) because it will be good for him. Also rearranged my house all the time because she thought it looked better.....

Sounds like a good Dad trying to protect his kids from a toxic person

I was thinking of asking all possible siblings for a DNA test, but hopefully my hospital records show who was at my birth and I can go from there. I should get them in 3 weeks.

Your son being autistic is important actually as he'll be even less able to cope with and understand her lying is imagine. I have Aspergers and suspect my dd does too, and it took me a long time to even get her to understand why little white lies are ok - e.g. telling granny you love the awful brown cardi she got you for Xmas. It will most likely be more confusing for him if like many he already struggles with the social rules and niceties around when to tell the truth and when to fib ; granny lying all the time won't make sense.

That elder abuse allegation was probably to make you feel guilty or to discourage you from repeating the ultimatum. Afaik grandparents don't have rights so not seeing them can't be abusive, even if in most circumstances (not this one) it would be unkind

It can't be very nice for anyone to be told to get help for their mental health but why would you bother if you didn't care. Maybe she likes the attention but this isn't the way to get it

Nope your husband is right unfortunately but what I would say is take a good long hard look at your husband and enjoy the view because this is what love looks like. He is doing what's right for your family she on the other hand is not

Have a look at outofthefog.net and daughters of narcissistic mothers it will help

Bigs hugs to you, Vegemite. Sounds like a horrible situation for you and I hope you find out who your dad is.