Is my husband BU?

[GiveMeVegemite]

My husband has stopped my mother seeing her grandchildren. My husband and I have 3 kids and my mum used to see them every week and used to help with school drop offs and pickups.

My mum has always been (in her words) a storyteller. I would say pathological liar, my husband would say sociopath. I have known since my childhood and recognised that she lies to everyone however I thought it was mostly innocent and just thought it was part of her personality. My husband thinks she does it to manipulate people.

Basically there have been a lot of things that were innocent lies and a lot of things that were quite hurtful, the worst being when my father died in November last year (who I had never met) and I found out she had been lying about him too and if she had told me the truth about my father I might have had someone who wanted to be a part of my life instead of me constantly trying to make contact with someone who wanted nothing to do with me. She lied about my father because the man who she said was my father had provided her with a house in a posh area (she told him we were his kids). But apparently its not him and it was some other guy who died 7 years ago. I was heartbroken. She also told me when I was a teenager if I ever tried to contact him she would never speak to me again, so I didn't try and contact him until I had a family of my own and felt it was very important and by then it was too late.

Within the last year she has told me she has cancer (she didn't), told me my sister has Hepatitis C (she doesn't), taken my son out and left him standing at the top of an escalator not knowing what to do and then she told him not to tell me (he's 4), told me my aunty is palliative and has 10 weeks to live (she is recovering from cancer and is not palliative) among loads of other not serious lies (about her job, her friends etc).

My mother and I are currently not speaking and haven't spoken since early December (when the person I thought was my father passed away). But i am willing to forgive her and just know that most of what she says is lies and for her to see the boys as long as I am with them, but my husband says she can't be in a position of trust with them because she could hurt them mentally. Is he being unreasonable?

I think if it were in the context of a diagnosed mental condition that your mother was receiving help for, why wouldn't your children see her? But in this case, unless you can convince your mother there's a problem for which she needs to seek help, then your husband's quite right - it could confuse, or worse still emotionally damage your children. Those sorts of lies would have a huge impact on a child who believed the teller to be a responsible adult of sound mind!!

He is totally right.She sounds to be a very damaging person.

I disagree with everyone who is saying that your husband is right, I think he is wrong.

Would you keep your children away from someone who had a physical illness such as MS? No you wouldn't, and it sounds like your mother may have some mental health issues, so it's not really fair to punish her if she has an illness that isn't her fault.

Of course you and your husband should protect your children but there's a difference between protecting and wrapping up in cotton wool, they aren't going to become raving lunatics just because their granny tells a few lies.

There's no reason for your mother not to spend time with them providing you are present. What if your husband's mother is diagnosed with Dementia will he be so adamant that his mother can't see the kids? I doubt it!!

I see no harm in supervised visits in these circumstances.

If someone else told these lies would you be so willing to forgive them? Just wondering if it's just because she's your mother and has a history of lying so you've kind of learned to live with it. If it's not ok for someone else to do this then it's not ok for her either especially as some of the lies she's told are huge

Your husband is 100% right.

What if she tells your children their dad is dying, but she must not worry you by talking about it?
What if she tells your children their aunt is ill?
What if she tells your children that YOU are dying from cancer?
What if she tells your children that their dad is not their real dad, and their real dad does not want to see them?

Has it not occurred to you that she is who she is and that she will feed your children the same horrible and upsetting lies?

I told her in December that if she wanted to see the boys again she had to go to a psychiatrist and get therapy. She told me what I was doing was elder abuse.

Emerald I agree about not keeping the children away from someone with a diagnosed metal illness, but that's not what this is. Not yet anyway. Perhaps the husband's right and her intention is to manipulate. FWIW I think that's unlikely and this is more a compulsion, but the OP's dm needs to get this looked into.

Equally I wonder whether people would want their dc to be around someone with known about but not medically controlled or diagnosed physical illness? I'm not sure that would be great for children, or safe potentially. Certainly there would be greater scope for distressing situations to arise!

Does she acknowledge her lies when she's found out OP?

Another in agreement with your husband in the very rare virtually unanimous aibu.

It isn't elder abuse but she will always see herself as the victim in this. She is the most important person in this, in her eyes. She always will be unless she gets help, but as with every other problem on earth, recognising that there is a problem is the first step and she obviously doesn't.

For support for you, I would try looking at theStately homes threads on the Relationships boards. Many, many of the folk on there have a great deal of experience with this sort of thing.

Seems odd that he wouldn't let them have supervised access. If you were there at all times then you could correct any lies. How does she react when you confront her about her lies?

Of course you and your husband should protect your children but there's a difference between protecting and wrapping up in cotton wool, they aren't going to become raving lunatics just because their granny tells a few lies.
Unfortunately there are a large number of statistics to clearly demonstrate that this is not the case. The sort of lies told by people like this are damaging and especially so in the long term.

I agree with your DH sorry, I know it's a horrible situation but he is right to put the needs of his children above the wishes of a grown adult who even you admit is a pathological liar

If it was my Mum I think I would be prepared to let her have limited contact on the condition that:

a) she recognises that she has a problem (with very damaging consequences for everybody around her) and seeks some professional help to address it and

b) there is supervision at all times (which means in practice I would want both me and OH to be there, so one of us could pop to the loo, take a child to the toilet, etc. without leaving other children with her alone even for a few minutes).

Just because I think it would be nice for the children to at least know who their grandmother is and see her occasionally, especially if they have been seeing her regularly until now. However, if she can't manage those two conditions then I think you have to draw a line for your kids' protection but also your own - it sounds like you have taken an awful lot of terrible behaviour because you are used to it, and that your DH is trying to protect you as much as he is trying to protect your DC: I totally understand and sympathise with his position.

I completely agree with your husband.

Emerald, I disagree:

Would you keep your children away from someone who had a physical illness such as MS? No you wouldn't, and it sounds like your mother may have some mental health issues, so it's not really fair to punish her if she has an illness that isn't her fault.

The lies she has told OP are extremely danaging and hurtful, and it's impossible to sse them as anything other than manipulative. OP's mother hasn't apologised, hasn't admitted she has a problem, hasn't shown any remorse or tried to find help. She sounds manipulative and damaging.

, OP. You've probbaly grown so used to your mum's mad behaviour that you're not seeing it properly or reacting as most people would.

The comparison to a physical illness isn't really comparable emerald , especially given there is nothing diagnosed here. Some folk are just not bloody nice

But to take your comparison and run with it; if I had a relative who, for example, regularly had blackouts which resulted in my children becoming injured in their care and they refused to seek medical help to try and control it then no, I would not allow that relative to be alone with them. The difference in that situation is that by supervising you could prevent the harm; op herself does not always know when her mum is lying and her tolerance for her lies will be extremely high after a lifetime of it. She might remove the children when her mum tells an absolute blatant whopper but there will be many more subtle untruths which she will tolerate because she is used to doing so.

So, OP, I agree with your husband.

How are you processing the news about your bio dad? That must be so hurtful to find out that your mum has lied for so many years about such an important thing.

Oh sorry, I see you already made that a condition. It's definitely not elder abuse. I would stick to your guns - you are just protecting your kids (and yourself, which matters too - you don't want your kids to see you being treated in this way either).

I confronted her early last year about a few things she had lied about, that I found proof she had lied about....

Firstly that she had been the only woman selected on a UN committee to go to new york and was set up in an apartment for a year, all expenses paid as a 25 year old.
Found proof this was a lie

Secondly, that she was engaged to the former president of east timor and had kept in touch for 30 years and she was upset she hadn't been consulted about a movie on his life. She slept with him in her youth, but they had never stayed in touch.

That she was a funeral director and worked for a specific funeral company. Contacted them and they had never heard of her.

Amongst lots of other things.

As I write them down they sound so ridiculous, but honestly this is the stuff she told me growing up and as her daughter I just accepted it.

You would keep your kids away if she had some highly contagious and debilitating physical issue, so I don't think its at all right to say it might be a MH issue (undiagnosed, unacknowledged) so let them see her and be exposed to her infectious debilitating lies.

Supervised access only if she accepts and gets help for her behaviour. But if it's personality disorder, not sure how much can be done.

OP, your husband is right. Sometimes it takes someone on the outside to recognise how damaging a situation is.
How did you feel after writing all that down? Your mother sounds very damaging. Please think about having some counselling.