Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Oh my word....

145 replies

Creampastry · 06/02/2017 14:58

Just listening to the radio and hear that every hour a female is treated at a medical facility (doctors, hospital etc) in the U.K. for FGM....

I assume the majority will be girls and young women .... but 1 every hour.... it's disgraceful.

OP posts:
TinselTwins · 07/02/2017 21:08

Andrew forced genital exams for women? are you f-ing kidding me????

SpiritedLondon · 07/02/2017 21:10

It's not discussed though in general conversation. You need a disclosure to identify any victims and no Dr in their right mind is going to attempt an intimate medical exam without the consent of the victim. ( it's illegal). With younger children you ordinarily require the consent of the parent before you can examine them - unlikely in many circumstances I would think.

Floods123 · 07/02/2017 21:19

There are always people on here making excuses. Prawn the parents that arrange this are NOT loving parents. This sort of pathetic pandering to minorities is just wrong. These people are criminals and child abusers. The children should be removed by social services and the parents prosecuted.

Andrewofgg · 07/02/2017 21:23

From time to time the courts authorise surgery on children - a lot more idrastic than medical examination - against the wishes of their parents (usually JWs). And doctors and surgeons and nurses carry it out.

If there is any difference then it is that what I suggest is less intrusive.

TinselTwins there is a distinction between (adult) women and girls; the latter - like boys - are not always the best judges of their own interests.

If I am wrong, I am wrong, but I am wrong in good faith.

And no, I don't agree with the Economist.

MrsHathaway · 07/02/2017 21:30

I think in that case they are usually wards of court by that point, aren't they? So they've crossed the trigger point for "at risk of immediate harm". A child "at risk of immediate harm" of FGM should be removed from the family by social services, because that's what that phrase means. And if you haven't got evidence that she's at immediate risk then you haven't got enough evidence to convince a British judge to authorise your carrying out a forced intimate examination. I honestly don't think they're comparable.

I am pleased you don't agree with the Economist. Do you see why I find your suggestion similar to theirs?

ColaCoaster · 07/02/2017 21:30

Andrew I can see what you are trying to get across, and that examining girls would be better than them getting cut. Would like to think it would make some relatives think twice but it could be counter-productive in making them more likely to go and stay abroad instead, who knows.
Education and trying to change attitudes is key but the latter would be very difficult

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 07/02/2017 21:31

Agree with tinsel and mrsh re internal exams

TinselTwins · 07/02/2017 21:34

Explain SLOWELY how you think a forced medical exam will FEEL any different to rape for a young girl? I mean emotinally not just physically.

Bunnyfuller · 07/02/2017 21:46

www.bedfordshire.police.uk/tackling_crime/female_genital_mutilation.aspx

Not tolerated here either

Bunnyfuller · 07/02/2017 21:47

It is getting it reported that is the difficulty

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 07/02/2017 21:57

I recently went to an event organised by the amazing Orchid Project : orchidproject.org. I would really encourage everyone to visit their website and read it. They have worked with 1,000s of communities to successfully end FGC. They are fab. There is hope and they believe they can end FGC in our lifetime.

There's a lot of (understandable) misinformation about FGC. It's a product of 1000s of years of cultural and social beliefs and practice. It pre-dates Islam and Christianity. It's perpetuated by lack of education, ignorance and the absence of information on fundamental human rights.

I have profound respect for everyone who works to support victims and end the practice.

LuluJakey1 · 07/02/2017 22:09

It is approx 0.0003% of the population. It is a statistically insignificant figure. Thete should not be any, ever but I think it is symptomatic of the fact that some cultures who live here live by their own cultural ideas and practices and that is virtually impossible to change - laws don't change it because we are scared to use them and whist people voice their strong feelngs and revulsion, the people who should challenge it and use those laws are loathed to do so out of fear of being called racist so it is dealt with in 'softer' ways, which leave girls suffering pain, infection and lifelong mutilation. We are absolutely shit scared as a nation of offending other cultures- however barbaric or dangerous their practices. We condemn from a distance but do not deal with individuals.

Dodadodaday · 07/02/2017 22:17

Readers of this thread who want to understand the cultural elements and impact on individuals/culture of silence could listen to this podcast for some insight. It's moving and balanced. m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/586/transcript

Benedikte2 · 07/02/2017 22:18

France has apparently got the practise under control by examining girls at school during routine health checks.
Many mothers don't want to have their daughters circumcised but feel pressured into it by their community, male relatives etc. They are told their daughters will be regarded as unclean, will be unmarriageable and will be promiscuous like Western women

Dodadodaday · 07/02/2017 22:19

Also, it will maybe help with understanding this isn't a UK issue, but a global one, being tacked on a global scale.

TinselTwins · 07/02/2017 22:41

France has apparently got the practise under control by examining girls at school during routine health checks.

has it? Or has it kept vulnerable girls away from education while inflicting sexual assault on those who manage to go to school?

No. This cannot be the way, the "cure" can not be in some ways as bad as the problem.. potentially worse solely in terms of numbers of girls affected

MrsHathaway · 07/02/2017 22:49

Or has it kept vulnerable girls away from education while inflicting sexual assault on those who manage to go to school?

Sad
TinselTwins · 07/02/2017 22:56

It's easy to get the "numbers" down if you force the victims to become invisible in society.

PausingFlatly · 07/02/2017 23:34

Here's UnexpectedItem's link to the orchidproject.org made clickable.

(For some reason wasn't on mine.)

MrsNuckyThompson · 08/02/2017 07:57

I'm a governor at a school in a deprived area of South London. The Safeguarding team is very very hot on this issue now so I hope that over the course of then next few years, assuming most LAs are taking a similar approach this will decrease. It is awful though.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 08/02/2017 09:05

Thanks Pausing Smile

morningconstitutional2017 · 08/02/2017 09:21

This was on tv a while back. In one part they asked a group of young men (in London) if they knew what FGM was and then highlighted the terrible consequences. All were horrified and said that they would prefer 'whole' women and were pleased to have become aware of this terrible tradition.

One small victory - but as this has been around for a long time it will take time for attitudes to change. Hopefully in future there won't be a need for this discussion to take place.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/02/2017 10:44

I watched that programme morning education is certainly the way forward for young generation

But to prevent girls right now they only way is prosecution we have tiptoed around this issue for years and years and excused cultural reasoning but still thousands of girls are being mutilated every single year

This is an extremely cruel procedure those who live here know that they are breaking the law when they take their young daughters abroad to have this done - regardless of their fears of their daughters not being seen as clean we are highly unlikely to change their opinion on that we can change the opinion through education at school for younger people

Parents both fathers and mothers have to be prosecuted they have to make that choice do they want to stick to traditional cultural values and break the law or do they want to allow their own daughter make that choice when she is an adult

why the fuck is a progressive society accepting of cultural values that are so damaging especially to girls and woman

MiscellaneousAssortment · 08/02/2017 15:18

FGM will not be stopped by state sanctioned repetitive sexual assault in which the girl or woman's consent is deemed irrelevant.

Women have rights over their bodies, just like men have, and, just like men this is a right that no one should be able to take away. Any there is NO circumstance in which it's ok to sanction assault in the name of addressing another kind of assault.

Absolutely disgusting erosion of womens rights that would take us back a century.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/02/2017 16:19

From what I have heard the girls are not forced to go under examination they are encouraged due to complications that very often come about from fgm and they can get support if they believe that there families are planning this barbaric mutilation for them

A few girls will no doubt be pulled from education education and that will be dealt with in other ways

We can keep pretending that by educating these communities that it's just not necessary and is harmful it will make a difference well it might do at some point but what about the girls who right now are having the trip abroad where they shall be cut planned out for them

Swipe left for the next trending thread