Oh my word....

[Creampastry]

Just listening to the radio and hear that every hour a female is treated at a medical facility (doctors, hospital etc) in the U.K. for FGM....

I assume the majority will be girls and young women .... but 1 every hour.... it's disgraceful.

[PausingFlatly]

Thanks Deejoda. And thank you for the work you are doing against FGM.

[Deejoda]

MiscellaneousAssortment you capture some of the complexities of dealing with this heinous crime.

[Deejoda]

It is a complex issue because it is shrouded in secrecy, seen as integral to part of their culture and cultural change is very difficult to achieve, difficult to stop because of how and where it is done and not easy to spot victims, no enough funding for SS, healthcare worker for surveillance and follow up, hard to prosecute because it is family and covered up and across many cultures...etc etc. Very complex! Cant just say 'its illegal, prosecute them'.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed
"From what I have heard the girls are not forced to go under examination they are encouraged due to complications that very often come about from fgm "

Yes, absolutely, sorry I think I muddied the waters there! My post was reacting to another posters (terrible) suggestion earlier that any girls thought to be at risk of fgm should be forced to have regular and ongoing and medical examinations to monitor them, and that the state should be able to take away these girls right to body autonomy as their consent or lack of would be ignored. I think the idea was that the girls this happened to would just have to suck it up as it would send a message of 'zero tolerance' to their families and wider communities.

That's why I was writing about the incredible damage that forced examinations would create, with the trauma to the girl/women themselves and also the societal effects of taking away women's basic human rights ... all in the name of combating fgm, which is a terrible irony.

Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that any forced examinations currently take place. I think it's hugely important that women are completely in control of what happens to their bodies should they take the hugely brave step of reporting fgm. If women or girls believe they risk medical assault (not just once but on a regular basis), why on earth would anyone come forwards or ask for help to stop fgm happening or for help repairing the damage fgm inflicts?!

[PausingFlatly]

(Sorry, that should have specified "suggestion by 'liberals' or 'progressive society' in the UK that FGM is OK", which was a claim made on this thread. Obviously the people who are actually enacting FGM think it's OK.)

[PausingFlatly]

And can I just clarify, Deejoda ?

By "a complex issue", you mean it's a complex process to prevent FGM, for all the reasons you describe?

Not that it's complex to decide FGM is a bad thing, or that there's any suggestion FGM is OK because it's "a cultural issue"?

Sorry, just want to make sure there's no scope for misinterpretation, given some of the comments on this thread.

[Deejoda]

It is a complex issue and healthcare professionals are not the villains here as some people suggested earlier in the thread. Lots of work being done by NGOs. I helped run a conference in Birmingham in 2007 educating the community and emphasising the health and legal implications.
Often, it is a grandmother or aunty that sneaks the girl of to a cutter hidden away. Sometimes they are flown abroad under false pretenses. Mostly not discovered until victim comes to have a baby or other gynae related complication or issue. These women are then tagged and SS involved to say their female children at risk and the woman is made aware it is illegal for her to allow it to happen to their daughters and SS is watching. But we all know SS is underfunded and it is difficult to stop what is shrouded in secrecy. Bit by bit though, girls are more aware and are reporting their parents etc.
As a side point, alot of men disagree with the tradition in principle but its seen as a female rite so they are not given much of a say. Lots to be done to enforce the FGM law

[PickledCauliflower]

And the cases that must go unreported.
I find it very worrying.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

24 women a day
168 women a week
8736 women a year

Many of those women will no doubt need ongoing treatment caused by the complications caused by fgm so will be having a number of appointments

I am not surprised by those numbers at all considering how many countries this is practised in

[PickledCauliflower]

Sorry - and women and older women also.
The injuries suffered will not just be current but also in later life.

[PickledCauliflower]

If I had a genital piercing (with my own full consent) - which then resulted in infection etc, it is not treated as FGM.
FGM complications are now reported at a rate as one per hour. That is only reportings, many young girls will be experiencing the pain and suffering without it being reported.

[TinselTwins]

incontinence, chronic pain….

[DorcasthePuffin]

I don't think it means one different woman every hour, hopskip.

[TinselTwins]

Sorry but I dont believe for a minute one woman is treated every hour for fgm.

Why not? are you assuming they mean surgical repair? then no
But recurring UTIs, gynae problems, bowel problems, birth complications etc - yeah, sounds about right IMO

[ColaCoaster]

Don't know what the accurate statistics are but even one case is one too many. Maybe some group like Daughters Of Eve would have the information but their website is out of date so not sure how active they currently are

[hopskip123]

Sorry but I dont believe for a minute one woman is treated every hour for fgm.

[PausingFlatly]

Have I missed something? Is there any post on this thread suggesting that FGM is OK because of cultural values? Or that we shouldn't be trying to stamp it out?

[Janey50]

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed - unfortunately,progressive societies are accepting of cultural values because they are terrified of being accused of being racist. This is obviously more important to them than trying to stamp out this hideous practice. It's an uphill battle, wherever it's being fought. Fgm has been illegal in 18 African countries since 2013,and there are restrictions on it in a further 6. But still it goes on.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

And for many people in developing countries, the concept of universal human rights will be completely alien to them.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

State support for FGC is not the problem, e.g. In Senegal it is illegal but was still widespread (much more less so than before thanks to education projects).

Possibly a bad parallel but think about drink driving. It's illegal and dangerous but more importantly for prevention it's socially unacceptable now. 30 years ago in rural Ireland it was illegal but the generation at the time didn't think it was a particularly bad thing as everyone did it.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

From what I have heard the girls are not forced to go under examination they are encouraged due to complications that very often come about from fgm and they can get support if they believe that there families are planning this barbaric mutilation for them

A few girls will no doubt be pulled from education education and that will be dealt with in other ways

We can keep pretending that by educating these communities that it's just not necessary and is harmful it will make a difference well it might do at some point but what about the girls who right now are having the trip abroad where they shall be cut planned out for them

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

FGM will not be stopped by state sanctioned repetitive sexual assault in which the girl or woman's consent is deemed irrelevant.

Women have rights over their bodies, just like men have, and, just like men this is a right that no one should be able to take away. Any there is NO circumstance in which it's ok to sanction assault in the name of addressing another kind of assault.

Absolutely disgusting erosion of womens rights that would take us back a century.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I watched that programme morning education is certainly the way forward for young generation

But to prevent girls right now they only way is prosecution we have tiptoed around this issue for years and years and excused cultural reasoning but still thousands of girls are being mutilated every single year

This is an extremely cruel procedure those who live here know that they are breaking the law when they take their young daughters abroad to have this done - regardless of their fears of their daughters not being seen as clean we are highly unlikely to change their opinion on that we can change the opinion through education at school for younger people

Parents both fathers and mothers have to be prosecuted they have to make that choice do they want to stick to traditional cultural values and break the law or do they want to allow their own daughter make that choice when she is an adult

why the fuck is a progressive society accepting of cultural values that are so damaging especially to girls and woman

[morningconstitutional2017]

This was on tv a while back. In one part they asked a group of young men (in London) if they knew what FGM was and then highlighted the terrible consequences. All were horrified and said that they would prefer 'whole' women and were pleased to have become aware of this terrible tradition.
One small victory - but as this has been around for a long time it will take time for attitudes to change. Hopefully in future there won't be a need for this discussion to take place.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Thanks Pausing