DH is 'honorary mum' who does 'women's work' - absolutely fed up with it - my morning feminist rant!!!

[smyle]

Just that really, I am a full time working mum, I am the main wage earner and DH works part time and mainly does the school runs etc. We're happy with this, it was a joint decision - Dh is a brilliant father, a fantastic partner and we work well together, but I get so utterly fed up of the language it's encased in! It is constantly portrayed as he is doing women's work. His mother constantly jokes about him being honorary mum, this has translated into the school mums at the play ground, if doing the washing or something he will joke that he is being 'washer women' (loads more examples but you get the picture) - all said in good humour but when I correct or challenge people on it I'm accused of being over sensitive (this irritates me even more!), but all of this screams sexist crap to me!
It drives me nuts on two levels (in no particular order btw!); 1) there is an underlying assumption I should be doing this and somehow failing by not. No-one ever calls me 'honorary dad', no one ever masculines my work or role, nope - I get comments such as being called a 'career woman' and not built to be a 'stay at home mum' - it is simply suggested that I am somehow falling short and DH has to step in to make up for my failings - oh and isn't he great to drop himself down to 'women's or mums work'. It is all crap - I was at home for 3 years when children were really small and loved it - I simply do what WE decided was best for our family!
2) I have 2 boys aged 4 and 6 - I don't want them caught up in the patriarchal rubbish - I don't want them having to grow up thinking this is women's work and this is man's. They hear all of this and sometimes even imitate the language. Great they've got a role model who is a fabulous dad and they see their parents work as a partnership but they still are influenced by this gendered rubbish.
Am I over reacting....

It is annoying but why don't you have a quiet word with mil and say her "jokes" are hurtful to her son as they imply a criticism of his masculinity.
And have a word with dh that his "jokes" are hurtful to you as they imply a criticism of your mothering.

It's a pain to have to do this but any reasonable family member wouldn't continue if they knew they were hurting someone they love.

One thing that jumps out is that you're being accused of being oversensitive, which is basically a way of minimizing your thoughts and feelings on the matter and transforming them into a personal weakness, rather than a valid viewpoint.

I suggest next time it happens, remain incredibly calm and explain exactly what you've said here. In particular, stress the fact that you don't want your boys growing up around such expectations and language, that this is your choice as a parent. If she tries the 'oversensitive' line, you can retort with 'I realise that it may be difficult for you to accept that society has moved on, but it has, and this is what's modern now. I'm not being oversensitive, you're being terribly old-fashioned, and it's setting a bad example'.

Does anyone tell him that he's lucky that you earn enough for him to work part time around the kids???

Mil was quite old fashioned but not once did she say her son was doing womens work ever, my own mum though she is still astounded dh does his own ironing

Sorry you are going through this.

I was at Uni in the early '80s and learnt to challenge of lot of the 'load of old s**t i had grown up with. Im sorry to read here , and notice in my own life, that its still around. Sigh.

Does anyone tell him that he's lucky that you earn enough for him to work part time around the kids???

YY to this.

I understand where you are coming from- and it's fine to have a bit of a rant.

My DH was a SAHD when our children were small. The women he met at toddler groups (and later on the school run/afterschool activities etc) frequently made comments about him being an 'honorary mum' or 'one of the girls'. I think it was intended to make him feel welcome and included (they are generally perfectly nice women some of whom have become lasting friends) but whenever I heard it it irritated me. As you say, I think it perpetuates the notion that if a man is looking after children/doing housework etc he is doing something that really should be done by a woman. On more than one occasion he was invited to a 'girls' night out' and quite a big deal was made (again, I suspect intended as an assurance that he was welcome) about how he was entitled to a night out with them as he was 'just as much a mum as them'. FFS why not just call it a night out and tell him you'd like him to be there because he is a friend!

When DH was at home with the DC I was frequently told how lucky I was that he was willing to bear the brunt of the childcare so that I could work whatever hours I wanted. Now that the DC are at school I work part time whilst DH works full time - and now I'm told by the very same people how lucky I am that DH works so hard so that I can have some 'time off'. The implication seems to be that when I worked full time it was because I selfishly wanted to pursue personal goals so DH selflessly stepped in to my role as an 'honorary mum'. Whereas when DH works full time he is selflessly providing for his family and allowing me to laze about (since obviously looking after children is hard work for men but easy for women).

I can't understand why so many people can't accept that both looking after children and going out to work when you also have children are difficult whichever gender you are.

antimatter I LOVE that guy on Twitter

NoCleanClothes the OP says her DH 'jokes' with the school mums about being a 'washer woman' amongst other things.

OP YANBU. There was a SAHD at the baby group I used to go to (13 years ago) and the fawning over him and idolising of him made me nauseous, he'd walk into the hall and the organiser and attendees would be falling over themselves to take the baby and toddler off him so he could sit down, they'd literally be elbowing each other out of the way to personally bring him a coffee, they'd watch his children while he sat and chatted, and even change his babies nappy for him so he could just sit and have a proper break and there'd be all this talk when he wasn't there about how amazing he was.

You even see it on here, in the language women use on their threads, they praise the DH for being a great dad and husband and the examples they cite are these men simply doing their fair share.

I'd talk to your DH firmly and calmly and explain everything you've said here.

Do the same with his mother (or get him to talk to her).

In the meantime, and if the comments continue after you've had the chat, pull them up on it, again calmly and non-emotionally, but utterly clearly, every time. EVERY TIME.

Oh that is shocking, OP. Call his mum out on this - "No, MIL, he isn't 'mum', I am Mum. He is just parenting."

I feel your pain. DH went part time when dd was a baby then gave up his job - working in a call centre, but for a bank ergo manly- job to become a childminder when she was 2. He still a childminder now, plus we've set up a couple of related businesses.

I work full time, am by far the higher earner, and also do a metric fuck tonne of work for his businesses which would not survive without it. Plus most of the cooking, cleaning, household organising, etc etc. I'm shattered, running myself in to the ground to support him, and all I hear is how he's fucking superman because he does the school run and is on the PSA and manages to wrangle a couple of toddlers.

My mother asked me the other week if he was going to go back to his old job now that our dd is at school. Cos he was obviously only doing childminding for that reason and now needs to get back to his manly job.

My DH is SAHD and we home-ed. It is safe to say he is in the vast minority and I do think he gets a lot of BS about it too.

I think what bothers me most is the number of times people have had a go at me about how terrible it is that he has had to give up his career to support mine.

Maybe it IS terrible (though every time I offer to job share with him goes down like a lead balloon with DH), but I don't hear all these people bemoaning how awful it is when a Mum gives up their career to support their child.

I had to listen to my (usually lovely) MIL going on about how tired my DH was from 'the nights' with our new baby and how I should make sure I am prioritising his sleep (as if I wasn't, by waking up to feed our child!) after I had had 4 hours on average for weeks at a time. Infuriating.

"He slept very well" was the only response I could think of that didn't sound very angry!

You're absolutely right. Whatever your boys hear from outside, how you and DH treat each other and each other's roles will be defining for them. If they see your DH doing all the washing it's highly unlikely that they will grow up thinking it's women's work really, but I think gender neutral language is important and your DH should not be referring to himself as a washerwoman in a self-denigrating way.

Follow Man Who Has It All on FB, it's good for a laugh and shows how sexist common phrases are. They have a whole series on jobs "I don't mind being called a firewoman because I know the term applies equally to men and women" by Dave, 35, firewoman.

I don't think you are being over sensitive at all.
However, whilst women continue to use 'wifework' as a complaint what do people expect.
it isn't gender specific but unfortunately both men and women consider it so and this is what needs to change.

I guess if your DH isnt bothered and possible likes all the female attention at the school gates then that's the main thing. Provided he doesn't feel demeaned by his chosen role and even is amused by it (hopefully) then I'd just let it go as there is no point raising your blood pressure trying to change attitudes by challenging them in the way you are.

Just console yourself with the fact that by working as you do and having a family arrangement which suits you all you are challenging traditional roles and being a great example to others.

statisticallychallenged. Stop being a doormat and give your DH an ultimatum to pull his weight along with a kick up the arse

Furious on your behalf!

It's shit, isn't it?

The term career woman especially gets my goat. No man, ever, has been described as a career man.

My DH gets so much praise for doing the school run from some mums at DD2's school that he's started trying to avoid them at drop-off. It massively bothers him because although he's not my children's father, we are a family and he is their step-father. He even checked with the two step-mothers with children in the same class (and who do all the school runs) and they've never been praised for it.

Why does he never say anything to his mum?

I think his going along with it would annoy me more than her though.

I mean it's obvious that whoever is there does the laundry/washing up..

And why is there anything wrong with him looking after the house that he lives in?

He'd have to if he lived alone & worked full time!

Why does it suddenly become demeaning because there are others in the house who happen to benefit as well?

Hmm do you think it makes a difference what sort of social circles you move in?

Sorry that sounds dreadfully snooty but cannot think of a better term

I work FT and so does DH so DD is in nursery. Pretty much all my friends are either people I work with (all FT) or nursery mums (necessarily also working). Therefore every woman I know works, the vast majority FT or nearly so. I don't get these kinds of comments and I think it's 'cultural', i.e. weekday toddler groups are more likely to be SAHMs just because of when they are held, and therefore that is more likely to be their norm.

Whereas at DD birthday party over the weekend, loads of the mums were discussing work as the default option........

I guess if your DH isnt bothered and possible likes all the female attention at the school gates then that's the main thing

WHAT????

Jesus wept.

I am on a personal crusade to stop women saying "I only work part time".

NO! You work part time.

Start with your MIL. Have a very firm word with her that it's not the 50's. You AND DH have decided this is the best for your family & he's NOT 'Honorary Mum' he's DAD. You are NOT 'a career driven witch' but simply providing for your family. Tell her that your set up is GOOD for your children, YOUR family & that you are no longer going to allow anyone to treat this as anything other than normal because you are NOT going to have your children have to listen to this crap. If she doesn't stop after that, leave if you are at hers/out. If she is at yours pull her up on it & say something about having to stop her visiting if she will not get on board with this.

When the shit hits the fan, tell DH he needs to have your back because you are a TEAM & unless he agrees with what she us actually saying, then he needs to man up & back you up.

Tell him he's not helping with his language either & to knock it on the head. He needs to speaks/act like a DAD, doing DAD things & not like he's doing 'wife work' or they'll be a massive fall out.

Friends - point out the fucking obvious. He's a Dad working part time. No different to a Mum working part time.

Randomers - either ignore or let off some steam 😁

I work FT and so does DH so DD is in nursery. Pretty much all my friends are either people I work with (all FT) or nursery mums (necessarily also working). Therefore every woman I know works, the vast majority FT or nearly so

I find most of the working mums I come across (sorry for using that expression again) work part-time. When ds was in nursery the most any of the mums worked was 4 days a week. I was thinking about my current workplace as well - and most of my female colleagues with kids work part-time. In previous jobs I have known a lot of mums who work full-time, but they are still in the minority. I can't think of any dads who work part-time except one guy who gave up work because his wife/partner earned a lot more than he did.

There was a single dad where i used to work and like a pp experience the mums were fighting over him getting him coffee and fawning over him he actually loved it that women were wrangling his dc with their own it was sickening tbh.