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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

West London living - are we hellish neighbours?

61 replies

user1486017891 · 02/02/2017 08:17

Mums - please help!! My partner, 3 year old daughter and I live in West London. Until recently we lived in a top floor one bedroom flat in a converted Victorian building which we had lived in as a couple. This was hard... no bedroom for my daughter, too many stairs, limited space.
After making our peace with the fact that we can NO WAY afford to buy what we want, in December we rented out our flat and rented a new one close by (also closer to the school we want her to go to). This is a ground floor flat in a similar converted house with much more space, a bedroom for my daughter and a garden -actually the back half of a garden that is split with our neighbours in the basement flat.
We love it and thought moving would be a real life changer - able to enjoy time at home instead of constantly going to parks... daughter could have playdates, etc.
But within weeks of moving here, the neighbours downstairs complained about noise and have done so twice since. The first time, a Saturday morning, they came up and knocked on the door. Second time it was a conversation by the bins. Each time they said they had contacted the landlord.
Last night, the landlord forwarded me a further complaint that they had written to him and asked me if I would contact them to sort things out. He is lovely and would clearly rather not be involved.
Basically, they say they can hear us moving around from early morning to the early hours and it is unbearable. They say my daughter is up late running the length of the flat squealing and my partner and I talk loudly and move around till the early hours.
In both my conversations with them I've been really apologetic and said we would try to keep noise down. They've also been civil, acknowledging that everyone has to live and it's difficult because there is little insulation in these old houses. They say how sweet my daughter is and how they want to get on with us. But the continuous contacting of the landlord - three times in just over a month - tells a different story . It seems so aggressive and I feel they want us out.
The flat is carpeted and, since the first complaint, I've made everyone take off their shoes. My partner and I both go to work and daughter is at nursery school from 9 to 3 - one of us picks her up and she is back at home by 4 earliest. Normally we try and get her to sleep at 8 but I admit her sleeping is a bit erratic and sometimes she just won't settle till later (normally because she has napped earlier in the afternoon after getting back from school exhausted). She is a normal lively 3 year old who jumps and skips and bounces and fidgets.
I have been trying to keep everyone quiet but am at my wit's end. I don't know what more I can do - I can't chop my daughters legs off. It feels like the neighbours are trying to deny our right to a normal existence.
My partner is furious about the whole situation... says they are trying to bully us and I am being a people pleaser instead of standing up for my family. It is causing stress in our relationship and last night we were up arguing about how to deal with it - no doubt intensifying the problem....
We are paying a fortune in rent but feel we can't have people or round or enjoy the flat in the way we had hoped because we are so paranoid. My daughter has had only one playdate - I was so stressed about having two of them jumping around that it's never been repeated. I don't even feel comfortable in the garden because it puts us in close contact with the downstairs neighbours who have the other half.
They are a couple in their 60s I guess - seem to be retired - living with an adult daughter. Our flat has been rented out for years but last tenant was a single female working full time and probably out in the evenings - so of course they are going to notice the difference.
I can't ignore them as the landlord has asked me to deal with the problem. So what do I say? I don't want to apologise any more for my daughter being herself. But I do love the flat and have to work this out if we are going to stay.
Other info - we can sometimes hear them talking loudly and also hear the single man living above walking around. This does not upset us. My partner has a son who lives with his mum and sometimes comes at weekends but is not noisy. I am not sure the neighbours have even cottoned on to that yet (thank god!)

OP posts:
mainlywingingit · 02/02/2017 11:57

YANBU basically it is poorly and cheaply insulated which is a big problem in London where people have made big bucks in property and cut corners.

Invite them up one by one i.e. Keep one partner downstairs - bring the other up and walk around and do normal things so they can see that you can not be any quieter and tiptoe around your own flat. Then swap them around so they both see the problem is the insulation not you.

They need to put the pressure on the landlord to put in ceiling sound insulation in the floor below. That is the solution.

Else counter complain for harassment.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 02/02/2017 11:57

I'm sure you're as considerate as possible. I don't suppose you and DP bawl at top volume at each other and there's carpet down not just laminate. So it's really about DD.

A teen with a drum-kit would be a different matter. It's everyday family noise these neoghbours object to. But walls and floors can be thin and once these neighbours started noticing, they were never going to stop noticing. If you go away for a break they will swoon at the silence and be doubly cross when you return.

Talk to them so you can report back to LL and say you explained about shoes off.
I don't think taking flowers etc is going to smooth things over as they weren't addressing concerns to you any more but preferred to go through the LL.

Once winter's passed I wouldn't hold out great hopes for playing with DD in the shared garden because that will be another trouble zone.

Lorelei76 · 02/02/2017 12:11

"Neighbours make noise. If you live in a flat, you live with other people's noise at times. That's just how it is with reasonable neighbours"

That can be interpreted in many ways though. Many people with toddlers won't let them run up and down or jump up and down in a flat. Maybe with mega soundproofing - I have no experience of that so don't know if it's good enough - but I live in London, most of my friends are in flats and there just isn't any allowing kids to run around if there's anyone in a flat below. It's hellish to be down there listening to that. Occasionally, yes, but the OP's own words made it sound regular?

there's someone here - I think Artandco - who lives in a 1 bed flat with 2 children and I think she has commented on similar threads before. Bad weather is a hassle, yes, but it's not a reason to drive your neighbours mad.

RubyWinterstorm · 02/02/2017 12:13

It's give and take in this situation...

We lived with two toddlers in a 2 bed flat, right above an elderly eminent writer.

The eminent writer said he liked children and did not mind a bit of noise, but he liked to nap every afternoon between 2 and 4, and could we be quiet at these hours.

I actually obliged by giving the kids the same nap time Grin, and when they were older by taking them to the park around that time most days. It was easy for me to do, kids needed out anyway.

Outside his "nap hours" there were times when we had noisy play dates, parties, and kid's even cycling around the living room Shock, playing hide and seek etc.

It's nice to be able to reach some kind of compromise. Could you find one with your neighbour? Obviously they need to be realistic about a bit of noise from kids.

BillSykesDog · 02/02/2017 12:23

OP, have PM'd you. Check your inbox.

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 02/02/2017 12:27

Im not sure the 'squealing, running, bouncing' etc is that normal...? I have a very challenging three year old and I still don't let her do this.

Or is that what they said? And not your description... ?

Ohyesiam · 02/02/2017 20:07

MaryPoppinsPenguins are you serious? You think three year olds don't normally squeal run or bounce? How on earth do you " not let " yours do these things?
I can imagine discouraging this behaviour at meal times ( with mixed success), but from end of school till bed time, no feeling excited, or happy, or scared, or exuberant?
Op you sound very reasonable, the downstairs tenants need to adjust their expectations . and they don't stand a chance getting anything done about your noise , if it was 20 hours aday top volume hip hop they still wouldn't in my experience.

limitedperiodonly · 02/02/2017 20:27

It sounds like you are being as considerate as possible. Perhaps more than others. Explain that to your neighbours and your landlord politely and firmly.

It's very unfair of your landlord to tell you to sort this out. It's his problem to solve, if he wants to, which I suspect he doesn't. You can't do anything more short of acquiring the power of teleportation.

It's never going to be silent for your downstairs neighbour, but if there is a noise problem that is more likely to be because he has installed inadequate noise insulation than you and your daughter being fairy elephants.

Unfortunately many landlords do stuff on the cheap and ignore problems because they don't have to live with them.

CripsSandwiches · 02/02/2017 20:32

I will say that the way kids move (heavy footed and always running) is very loud for downstairs neighbours. If the flat is carpeted and you remove your shoes (which I think are reasonable requests) there's really nothing you can do and it's just one of the hazards of not being on the top floor.

Having lived below a loud toddler (he literally was never taken out and was up early and somehow still running around late at night throwing marbles on the hardwood floor) I resolved to make sure my DS didn't evoke the same rage in my downstairs neighbour in our new flat (moved because it was too hellish living below the neighbours). I made sure there were carpets everywhere and thick rugs where toys were likely to fall. We took off our shoes and didn't play loud games early in the morning. Our downstairs neighbour was very grateful and said we were the quietest neighbours she'd had.

user1486017891 · 02/02/2017 23:09

Hello Mumsnetters. I posted the original message this morning but have been at work most of day. Thanks so much for the brilliant support, noise avoidance tips and ideas for an escalating scale of response. And to those who think we may in fact be a bit of a nightmare.

I am a bit wary of being too nuclear too soon as I would ideally like to stay in this flat for a while (until great lottery win and Holland Park mansion) . However, it's v reassuring to have them in my arsenal....

Today, I picked up my daughter from nursery, exhausted her in the playground till she almost dropped and took her out to tea - so she was fast asleep at 7.30, thank god. As silence set in we could hear downstairs neighbours talking and their dog barking. The insulation is truly rubbish! I want to be Michelle Obama - "You go low, I go high" - but of course it is v tempting to throw complaints back.

Our noise = to my mind typical kiddy stuff...whinges, whines, exclamations, "mumeeeeeeeee". Hopping and jumping rather than walking. Partner and I sometimes faff or watch TV past midnight. Arguments over neighbours are now chief cause of noise.

OP posts:
Singasongofsadness · 03/02/2017 00:50

Argh what a nightmare OP!!

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