If you're poor and you have boys, read this.

[user1477282676]

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/11/obesity-soar-boys-girls-poorer-homes-deprived-backgrounds-overweight-2020

I am sorry if that sounds offensive. But I am so, so angry about the state of things right now in terms of inequality in the UK (and the world!) and I have started another thread along the same lines...but this one is slightly different.

According to this article in the Guardian, obesity among boys from the most financially strapped families is going to be rising whilst obesity in wealthy children will fall.

How is this even a thing? We know what schools do in their attempts to "educate". They weigh, they police lunch boxes...but that doesn't fix anything it would seem!

I am so cross that children...and it would seem boys especially, are going to be suffering.

"But I think a lot of people are using poverty as a scapegoat for laziness and lack of education or motivation. "

Yes they are. But that isn't a cover all answer why there are 'obese poor'. There is no catch all reason.

Of course there are those that don't have the facilities to cook due to their accommodation or perhaps their oven/hob is broken and they can't afford to replace so have to rely on takeaway foods, but I doubt this group make up a large percentage of the 'obese poor'. (But they are in a poverty trap - money spent on takeaways means no money to gain cook facilities)

If a household not in this circumstance is buying takeaways (as opposed to convince foods from shops) frequently then the excuse of cost is a difficult one to believe. Takeaways are not the cheap option. I'm not sure how many below the poverty line actually do this. I do think there's a belief amongst the wealthier classes that there are greater numbers doing this than there actually are.

There are then those that cannot afford frequent takeaways, and lack transport or nearby affordable supermarket (or both) so ready meals and convinced food from a shop they can get to (beholden to what that shop supplies).

Amongst this group of those lacking transport (which makes weekly shopping difficult - a fact I think many who have not experienced lack of transport ever cannot empathise with and so don't understand) maybe people who do have an Aldi or Lidl near by but lack the understanding of how to cook, and those who don't want to know how to cook or can't be bothered with the time.

There are those who are time poor too, long days and late in the door, too hungry to wait. Of course there is the choice of a slow cooker - this again needs the motivation, knowledge and time.

One of the biggest problems (and this'll be cultural) is the desire to treat ourselves. 'Treats' by their very nature should be infrequent, but there's been a huge increase in how frequently people think they deserve a treat. Its a bit of a chain reaction too, 'everyone' is eating more exciting food (not boring lentils, not boring stews out of a slowcooker etc) so why shouldn't i?

Culturally treats are what in Britain? Unhealthy and quick usually.

There are plenty more situations that are causing this rise in obesity than I've mentioned in my essay of a post. As there are several reasons why it's boys and not girls: many have been touched on in the thread though.

I find it odd that there is a very strong link between being poor and obese so some people decide that basically poor people are doing poverty all wrong and if they just did poverty right it would be ok.

**"I think the link between mental health, poverty and diet is incredibly close."

I agree with this. When life is hard and feels like one long slog and endless grind it's easy to take the easy and more comforting route. Rich people have other treats. Clothes, holidays, days out. Yes there will be exceptions who are poor and manage, but for many people cheap, filling food is a manageable treat. Plus it's everywhere and it tastes nice! As for boys. You only have to read MN to see all the mums of boys boasting about the endless appetite of their sons. Never see it about the girls.

I like this - no having to change clothes, wear trainers etc.
thedailymile.co.uk/

I don't know what people consider 'poor' on this thread but I have been working in the community for a long time in East London and see a lot of poverty.

There are lots of threads like these on MN and there are always people saying how its simple to eat well on little money.

Cooking frugally is not the same as cooking when you are poor.
Frugality as a hobby usually means a well stocked kitchen, a knowledge of cooking, time and energy.
Cooking when you are poor can mean no access to a cooker let alone a kitchen. No extras like spices and no money for the key meter.

I have to challenge the idea that immigrants cook from scratch. Its not a universal truth. Some of the worst diets I have ever seen belonged to immigrant families. The availability of cheap fast food and sweets added to a lack of background knowledge of nutrition can lead to kids living on chips and red bull. Particularly when you add in an exhausted mother with no support network.

I don't know why this article is more concerned with boys. Someone upthread mentioned families keeping their boys in for safety. That makes sense. I also wonder how many activities are totally free or even cheap?
Its ironic that the only kids I see who are allowed to play out in my area are the poor ones. The more affluent kids are being taken to organised clubs and activities. In cars.

No car and no money for £5 subs, no exercise.

Its tempting to say that this issue is simple matter of 'eat better, do more sport' but its not that easy. If it was we wouldn't have any fat kids. Poor people care about their children just as much as anyone else.

To be fair boys do genuinely need about 200 more calories than girls if they have similar levels of activity and an active boy would need 400 more than a sedentary girl.. mums of boys arent entirely imagining it

Just pondering whether the problem with boys weight is also linked to the frankly silly (IMO) increase in protein drinks and building muscles, but not actually getting fit. Are they eating protein to try and bulk up but failing to actually work out? I see a lot of teen lads chatting to mates around equipment and holding protein drinks but very little hard exercise.

Recipe books (or unlimited wi-if)
Slow cookers
Tupperware
Large freezer
Casserole
Condiments
Has
Electricity

Just a few of the things you take for granted if you earn more than the poorest people in our society. All these things make healthy eating easier (sometimes in quite subtle ways).

Then there is culture. What types of cereal do you think are healthy? What is your attitude to fast food? How used to meal planning/budgeting are you? Who shares their cooking ideas with you? How much time do you have available to cook? How concerned are you with your health? What other health issues do you have? How is your MH?

I honestly think most people on MN don't understand the combination of the psychology and practicalities of coming from a poor background and having limited access to a more affluent culture.

This does interest me because I always lose weight when I go through a poor phase (like now) and put it on when I have more money and can afford more food that I actually enjoy eating, and don't have to walk miles and miles because I can't afford bus fare. It's also a reversal of the 'old days' e pre obesity crisis, when more people were poor but nearly everyone was thin ( though not necessarily healthy, of course).

200 calories is about 3 biscuits though. Not much really. I think having a "hungry growing boy" is still a bit of a pride thing.

I suspect Energy drinks are not helping

Maybe some people just don't see the point in trying to be slim? If you have limited expectations of your life, why not comfort eat? Why make an effort to eat healthily and keep fit just because someone tells you to?

I agree with the transport being an issue.
The nearest supermarket to us is four miles. To get the dc and me on the bus when they were too small to be left home alone it cost me around £8.
So we became reliant on the corner shop which had less choice and more ready meals and more expensive.

Yes I could have walked the four miles with kids (one sn) in tow but I would have struggled as I have health issues and wouldn't have been able to carry a weeks shopping back.

My dc eat fairly well now as I get a lift off someone once a week to the supermarket and can bulk buy veg and chicken and mince and pasta and such

I honestly don't think people on Mumsnet realise what poor is sometimes. It isn't like having a back stock like many people do of herbs and spices or rice and tinned stuff and pasta.

When we left exh I had to leave my job, we left with nothing but what we had in a backpack we had nothing, we were often on the last couple of £1 emergency credit, we had nothing in the cupboards at all and I have in the past mixed flour and sugar and water and cooked it just to eat something as there has been nothing else and that is all we have had in. I have missed meals just so that dc can have the 17p pasta and 30p sauce over two meals or so I had a pound to get the dc hot chips from the chippy if we had no electricity.

We had no fridge, no freezer, no washer nothing to store food.

By the time tax credits came through we were in debt so we still had no money.

The current universal credit claims are taking 12 weeks to come through in a lot of cases. 12 weeks of living on nothing but child benefit if people aren't working. Even us where I do work we would struggle to pay all the bills and rent and everything else if we had no tax credits for 12 weeks.

But trifle many don't have all those things.

Also when I was little my mother had none of them,not even a fridge,no super market and very little money.

I think the excuses actually are part of the cause.

It's not as simple as just blaming diet though, is it!

Children from poorer families often don't do any after school activities that involve exercise, due to cost. My dts's do swimming, athletics and football twice a week, then football matches on a Saturday, this all cost around £30 plus a week so for those on the breadline it's out of the question.

I also agree with the argument that to these families, food is their treat, since they don't have the regular treats that some of us afford our children, like days out, cinema etc.

Greenginger ive lost 10 stone. But my list is just made up of things that ive noticed.

We turned DOWN a kitchen refit from the HA Thats how committed i was to not putting back on the weight i lost.

It was the right decision. It took them NINE MONTHS to fit the kitchen in the flat below us. My downstairs neighbour was livid. We fucking KNEW it!!!

You dont fucking tweet about healthy eating and then tell your tenants to live on takeaways as soon as them eating healthily inconviniences you. And no there is no where else we could have put stuff or cooked. Its a tiny one bedroom flat. Green your kitchen sounds similar to mine and ive lost ten stone.

Pavements SHOULD be gritted in the winter as well as roads Not all of us drive. Some of us have to walk.

They are closing and dismantling equipment in parks Its a fact.

My exes boss didnt like him having lunch breaks so he would frequently have to eat at the wheel while driving.

Eating healthy is certainly not cheap. I can easily come up with a week of dinners for £3 or less.
6 bags of value pasta.
Or a bag of chips (69p back in my poverty days, not all that far behind) and 15 value eggs from tesco. Used to cost me about £1.75 in total, and feed me for a week, plus porridge or value wheat biscuits.
Honestly can you eat 5 different types of fruit/veg for less than an extra £20-£25 a week at absolute minimum?
And yes, a bunch of bananas may be only a pound or so, for example, but you can easily get 4 or 5 packets of value biscuits or a few chocolate bars for that, or a bag of chips. Which is more substantial?

I think the thin / poor of yesteryear was due to lack of food and higher active life style - and less TV, no gaming, less high sugar content ready and convient foods and drink.

I recall reading someone on MN scoffing at the idea (and it was about obesity in general not just the amongst 'the poor') because this couldn't possibly be the reason as people ate dripping on bread and jam on bread. But I suppose the biggest difference is dripping, or jam, and bread was a meal. And, depending on which time period you are harping back to, the bread not commercial sliced bread, but bread made in a bakers or at home (chances are smaller and less sugar).

My Dp used to have to help his mum carry their shopping back a couple of miles at age 4. His sister was booted out of the pram to fill it up and he carried the potatoes. His mother had very poor literacy and they were very hard up. He was certainly not obese and was underweight if anything.

Something has changed and it isn't the hardship of being poor.

OP, you're right to be outraged. Obesity is but one indicator of poor health that will be worse for poor people. Poor people and their children will in general have poorer diets, worse dental health, higher levels of obesity, lower levels of nutrition and ultimately a lower life expectancy than wealthier children (the difference in life expectancy and healthy lifespan between richer and poorer parts of the UK is staggering). A real indictment of a wealthy society that does not even feed it's children well. And then the struggling underfunded health service will have to deal with the consequences.

I agree a hell of a lot of it is cultural. The cheap but wholesome food consumed by those on a low budget in many countries is very unlike the kind of cheap food preferred by most of those on a low budget in the UK. Considering that it is often said that weight is 80% down to what you eat and only 20% down to exercise, I don't think it's that realistic to blame the obesity crisis on a lack of cheap sports facilities or the lack of enough PE in school.

Exercise is obviously good for your health quite independently of helping with weight loss. Walking more and kids playing out more would be enough to be good for health, but it would take a serious amount of full-on sport to compensate for a really poor diet and achieve weight loss without any changes to eating habits, and this isn't realistic for most people.

There can't be many people, however poor, who don't know that a diet high in veg and low in sugar and processed food is better for weight and health. I don't believe it's a question of education. It's a question of it being hard to make those good choices when life is hard, resources and time are lacking, lentils aren't even on your cultural radar, and you need comfort food to cheer you up and habits ate hard to break.

Greenginger my cooker is fine Its just over 3 years old. But the one we had before that the oven went and we only had a hob and the microwave. I still managed to lose the weight. But im not from the school of "i managed to do it so why cant you" I like to think i have a bit more insight than that.

^6 bags of value pasta.
Or a bag of chips (69p back in my poverty days, not all that far behind) and 15 value eggs from tesco. Used to cost me about £1.75 in total, and feed me for a week, plus porridge or value wheat biscuits^

But people don't get fat eating like that. There's simply not enough calories. It's all the sugary drinks, takeaways and frozen pizzas and beige crap. The things that are actually relatively expensive and in the case of frozen chips etc need the oven on for half an hour to cook, so cost money to cook. There is a lot more to this than money.

I know this is predicted. But quite a lot of events recently had been predicted that have not come to pass...

I think boys have less good impulse control than girls and since there is an addictive element to over eating, doesn't that come in to it?

Seville when i was at Slimming World i had to cut the pasta I would either not lose or gain if i didnt.

Not everyone is the same.