To wonder why it's OK - even considered a positive thing- to give girls names that are traditionally considered boy's names but....

[BertrandRussell]

.......not the other way round?

Yes id forgotten about Casey Affleck. Still think it's more of a girls name though.

How about Harley? Not a name I'm fussed on but I know several little ones, boys and girls.

I have only ever met female mackenzies. I am perfectly happy, however, to accept a male Mackenzie without bringing up my dinner.

Nope. If we're speaking French, I agree there would be an amount of hilarious misunderstanding. But we're saying, hi, my name is... And you're saying no, it isn't, I don't bloody well agree that it is.
Hi, I'm a girl, my name is beau.
Well, your parents should've bloody well checked with me first.
Jesus. If a kid's name is beau, the kid's name is beau.

I think it was in Freakonomics where they showed that names move gradually down the social scale. Names chosen by the upper classes are then copied by the lower classes in an attempt to emulate them but become less popular amongst the uppers as a result.

This is the same principle.

What about Lindsay? Charlie? Blair?

I think Indian names are often unisex.

And in France don't they use a lot if Marie like Jean - Marie. For years I thought it was a female name!

Nah her parents are daft. No need to check with me though.

Well, I think what all this discussion has shown is that it is perfectly acceptable to want a "boyish" name for a girl, and lots of boys names are used for girls, it would not be acceptable to want a "girly" name for a boy. And none of u have ever heard of parents deliberately choosing a girl's name for a boy. And as usual, none of the "names are gender neutral' people who were so very active on the Luca thread are prepared to step up an be counted. Perhaps because they haven't thought it through to its logical conclusion. And I think that actually says quite a lot about the relative value of men and women in society. And it's really sad. I think people should give their girls girls names and encourage them to be proud and happy to be women.

I disagree. I know a 25yr old woman called Mackenzie. It's very popular as a girls name is Scotland

I have never in the 56 years I've lived in Scotland come across any girl or women with the first name of Mackenzie.

Oh, ffs. My girl is as schooled in feminism as any you'll meet. She knows she's a girl and is proud to be so. I gave her a name that I loved and that had meaning for me. What point were you trying to make? That boys are more valued than girls? Congratulations, you made it, but I don't think it was a hard sell.

I disagree. I've never met one or come across one. And my work involves accessing Scottish public records

My work does to a certain extent too, and nary a female Mackenzie.

Maybe you don't get out enough, lass?

And a boy called Senga?

Tbh FrancisCrawford I've always assumed Senga was apocryphal.I've never met a Senga.

Evelyn Waugh, the writer whose first wife was called Evelyn Gardiner.

feminine sounding names are not twee maybe not to personal taste but twee and frilly I don't understand

I don't get the need for some MN posters to denigrate anything feminine at every opportunity.

Maybe you don't get out enough, lass

Along with all the other posters in Scotland who said the same? You couldn't be more wrong actually. And like FrancisCrawford my job means I will be dealing with names and records a lot.

Maybe they all their parents moved to England to avoid people saying, Mackenzie? That's a fucking surname! Who knows? I only know that I know two mackenzies and they're both female and that's their first name. I don't argue with them, nor do I dispute that there aren't any in Scotland or that it's also a surname or that boys can have it as a first name. But why can't my anecdotal evidence be as good as yours?
And apologies if you do, in fact, get out enough.

I only know that I know two mackenzies and they're both female and that's their first name

You know 2 and on that basis it's "very popular as a girls name in Scotland"

I know 2 women born in Scotland called Phaedra. Does that make Phaedra "very popular as a girls name in Scotland" ?

I'm disputing the nonsensical suggestion it's a "very popular" name.

And Mackenzie is a surname.

I was never in the 'it's popular in Scotland' bit. I've no idea, so we're arguing on the wrong basis. I'm sure we can find other things to argue about, though.

And Mackenzie is a surname.
Has anybody actually disputed you on this?
Are you saying it therefore cannot be a first name? Because that would be weird.
See, told you we could find other things to argue about.

It is a surname. Personally I think it looks ridiculous as a first name especially for a girl.

Yes, it is a surname, pretty sure nobody's arguing there. but clearly, some people have the first name Mackenzie. Which is weird, what with you finding it ridiculous and all. What were the parents thinking?

I have a problem with getting my head around a girl called Beau, when the only other Beau I know was a boy.( Oh and of course there's Beau Bridges). I keep wanting to say"surely she should've called Belle not Beau" !

I would assume "Beau" for a girl is a mistake by parents who don't know beau is the masculine form and think it's just the same as " beautiful"

I suppose there is Bo Derek and Bo Diddley for that matter - it looks OK as "Bo"

And female beaus (beaux?) everywhere breathe a sigh of relief. They can keep their name (if they pretend the spelling is the same as some random other woman).
Don't you get tired of being so...'certain' about everything?

I know several Mackenzies who are female, but I'm in the US and here it's now almost exclusively a girl's name. And now it has fallen victim to the creative spellings that some of my compatriots are so fond of. So we have Makynzye, Machenzee, etc.