To wonder why it's OK - even considered a positive thing- to give girls names that are traditionally considered boy's names but....

[BertrandRussell]

.......not the other way round?

"And don't get me started on calling girls Inmaculada Concepcion..."

Marginally preferable to Maria Dolores..........

I've just read a 'hard boiled thriller' about a super tough and clever female prosecutor in Baltimore. There are about four women in the book who have mens names. Andi, Jonnie and others. It's fucking wearisome. Yeah, we get it. These women are so tough and cool they're as good as... men!

masculine adjective

Not, proper noun?

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone claim that giving girls boy names is the same as the opposite. I agree that that's obviously wrong and for depressing reasons.

I have a nephew called Gabriel and people sometimes think he must be a girl which just seems a bit dim to me.

I went to school with a boy called Kerry, which is usually used for a girl.

I really can't get with Beau for a girl though, in this day and age to people really not just Google names before using them even if they don't have a basic common knowledge it's not as though Beau is only a problem in France, most Brits know enough French to know you've called your daughter "Handsome"

@FrancisCrawford

In the context of this post, surely not.

meant to link to zero derivation.

Well, if you regard b.e.a.u as a collection of letters with no history, association or connotation, then yes, I suppose you're right............

Well yes, stick a capital letter at the front and call your child it, and you can make anything a proper noun. Doesn't mean it's a good idea though!

We have a male and female Sasha in our family. We also have a female Israel.

@BertrandRussell

I'm not sure if you're joking. Most proper nouns have history, association and connotation.

Wett- I don't understand. What does the word Beau mean to you? I suppose it's a noun when used to mean a suitor. But that's masculine too.

Vdb- but do you have any male Deborahs, Naomis or Eves?

It's nothing more than a bad boy name as well as, in my experience, a bad boy's name.

It's only since quickly googling it now that I've learnt my DH's name 'means' beloved.

I'd say that words lose their meaning when becoming proper nouns and take on the associations of the thing it is naming - my mind's gone blank as to the proper linguistic term.

Does 'Felicia' mean "happy things" to you? Would you call it a feminine proper noun or a Latin adjective? I always think of the Latin as it's one of the few words I remember. I suspect I'm in the minority.

In a thread questioning the use of names, I can't see how one would refer to Beau as an adjective. Nor as a noun when referring to a suitor.

I think it might be too simplistic to put this kind of thing down to "the patriarchy - how depressing", etc. The flip-side to this kind of thinking could be that, in Western developed countries at least, it's now perhaps more acceptable for women not to conform to gender stereotypes than it is for men - in names, clothing, work roles, etc. So why it's less acceptable for a man to be called Lucia than a woman called Luca, or for a man to wear a dress as opposed to a woman wear a suit? Is this not also driven by what women want? Yes, we all like men to have empathy / not be aggressive (if these can be called more "feminine" traits), but do women actually want men with feminine-sounding names or behaviours - regardless of "the patriarchy" and all that it stands for? Maybe it's not simply that people (men and women) belittle feminine characteristics, but also that women are "protective" of gender differences and derisory about femininity in men because it's not something they actually want or desire.

Someone said upthread that Thomas was a surname.
But actually it was given name before it was a surname (New Testament).
It follows the same pattern as Edwards and Roberts, but since it ended with an S anyway there was no need for an extra one.

When it came to naming my DC I did think about the meanings of their names as well as the sound and the connotations, and I deliberately avoided names that were feminisations of male names, because I felt that they were a bit secondhand, as if the the lads got the first go and then passed them along to the inferior females.

Somedays I know a man named Kerry :)

"I think it might be too simplistic to put this kind of thing down to "the patriarchy - how depressing", etc. "

then followed by some extraordinarily convoluted logic to basically say "it's all women's fault". Erm...

Another thing that just struck me (I abandoned the baking of 200 cup cakes to come and post) is that the feminizing suffixes -et, ette and etta are actually diminutives. So Henrietta not only has a female form of a male name- but is literally little Henry!

This is even more of a feminist issue than I thought it was!

This is even more of a feminist issue than I thought it was!

Ah, bless. But isn't everything?

When the meaning of the word changes from a masculine adjective. That could happen. As you say, language evolves.

Oh come on; it's French you're talking about! But unlike handsome, it can't be used as an adjective to describe a woman.

Oh bugger off, SansComic. Or join in the discussion like a gentleman.

o Beau was a male French name and because of that would make the Op's "linguistic teeth itch" if used for a girl?*

Beau hasn't been used in France for boys as a first name that I've ever known, and I've never met one. I can't say say what I'd think of the parents of a female Beau (you can bet they think it sounds nice) as I'd be breaking talk guidelines.

Oh come on; it's French you're talking about! But unlike handsome, it can't be used as an adjective to describe a woman.

I agree. Some of this thread is hilarious