Apathy/annoyance at non voter

[Ftlofg]

I am being a bit unreasonable but cant help it. Dm is what most people on here would class as either underclass/low working class. Not as stereotypical as the ones you see on tv we grew up in poverty but home was slways clean and well presented as were we. Kids including myself all grown up into mostly socially responsible adults. This is just to give context As i wonder if background plays a part. Basically she got a bit annoyed at me as her pip is up for renewal and has been rejected (in line imo with tory cutbacks and not because her condition has changed she is most likely to appeal ). I tried explaining that being rejected is most likely a result of tory cutbacks against the disabled and maybe she sould consider voting against them in thr next election. Dm doesnt believe me and refuses to vote. Doesnt believe me about the 2 child rule in april neither. Aibu for not really having any sympathy for her predicament if she isnt at least willing to do the minimal thing of voting. Appatently last time she voted was for m thatcher. Of course this is entirely my opinion but the torys have no interest in the likes of my dm who is disabled and cant work/havent worked most of working life. She has only just in yje last 5 years become disabled before tjat she was a single uneployed parent. Im on phone so apologies for soelling etc and probably slow reply.

i think its Universal Credit now and theres a minimum six weeks wait between claiming it and getting paid, some people have had to wait twelve weeks. thats a shit for anyone but especially someone disabled

My son lost his housing benefit and council tax benefit when he lost his PIP. He is on a low income and he can only work part time due to pain in his legs (sorry, due to his mild weakness ...) so he is really tight for money now. I am doing food shopping for him.

We are rural Scotland so not sure if UC is rolled out here yet. Is giving financial advice (or in this case assistance no doubt) as emotive/frowned upon as giving political advice .

Yh its hard isnt it, id never see my dm struggling for money and help out as much i can, as i guess you do with your son. It does fuck me over personally that the Tories can get away with this. And I do believe that they are the cause of so many legitimate people getting their dla/pip cut.

It just seems a bit to coincidental that the three people I know with clearly defined disabilities have had it refused within the space of 3 months. We are not talking of chronic conditions that can improve and then regress, which could affect a claim I suppose (not saying it is right, just how it might work) or not easily quantifiable conditions such as back pain for example. One is deaf and partially sighted as proven. One has brain damage that causes physical and mental impairment, as proven. One has severe arthritis as proven. How can that be downgraded to "no award" overnight without it being a new policy?!

And in reference to your OP, imo if you dont vote then you dont get to moan.

If she had voted and then it went to shit then moan away, she has that right because either the ones she voted for fucked her over, or the ones she voted for didnt get in and the other lot fucked her over. But not voting means that you dont get to moan about anything that the government has control over.

Calling your Mum underclass is as I thought we were working towards everyone is equal.
I don't know what pip is, but if she's poorly she doesn't deserve to be treated different because she didn't vote. I don't think unless people had changed from that horrid UKIP to Labour then her vote would have made much difference.
Yes I'm liberal, yes I like Corbyn but not everything he stands for. Yes I know the intricacies of politics and how the NHS & schools are suffering, as this government although not different from Labour, favour private enterprises taking over public services, for the new owners long term benefit. I should add this did happen under Labour too though.
We should all remember that a country should be judged on how it treats the most vulnerable. The escalation of food banks and waiting lists for social housing, show this government has little regard for those in need.
That said, is it parenting, is it that food banks haven't always been there, so people will spend money on luxuries, then turn up at a food bank cap in hand. I don't know. I wanted to offer counter arguments for those who will most likely present them.
We should vote, especially women, as it was fought for. With the current US president I don't know if we'll have to worry about voting again. The stuff he's doing I'd be surprised if a nuclear war doesn't break out.

PIP = DLA

Used to be Disablilty Living Allowance, is now called Personal Independence Payment. Either way, its to cover the extra costs a person with severe health issues or disabilities has in normal life, so personal care costs etc. Presumably because taking away anything with the word "Disability" in it makes them look bad, they changed the name.

Oh and nice how you claim to be disgusted as the OPs description of her mother and yet slip in "That said, is it parenting, is it that food banks haven't always been there, so people will spend money on luxuries, then turn up at a food bank cap in hand."

I assume you know nothing about food banks, because if you did then you wouldnt make such a fucking stupid comment. You dont just turn up and get a weeks worth of shopping because you decided to go on holiday. You get 3 days worth of the very basics of basic food and thats it, and the number of visits are strictly limited, usually 3 within 6 months before the staff refer a client on to social agencies who can help them deal with the problem in a more long term way.

Money is not being spent on luxuries. Educate yourself.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/25/food-banks-myths_n_4161759.html

As your mum, she probably has a closer idea of the war than you. Remind her that good people died for the right to vote.

I always say it to anyone who says they won't vote. I would rather someone voted against me than were apathetic.

Very, you seem very aggressive and over invested in this thread

That'll be the underclass in me, innit.

It just seems a bit to coincidental that the three people I know with clearly defined disabilities have had it refused within the space of 3 months.

Have they appealed? A lot of people are winning on appeal (although doubtless the government will be tightening up on that sharpish).

Your mother has made a very intelligent and wise decision. She isn't interested in politics and doesn't understand the ins and outs of it so has decided not to vote.

She also seems to be intelligent enough to realise that you have decided this is a good opportunity for you effectively to get two votes by presenting her with your own highly partisan reasoning of why and who she should vote for.

If you were actually genuinely concerned just about her voting rather than her voting for who you want, you would be providing her with a wide range of materials and media concerning all parties from a range of viewpoints rather than trying to coerce her into voting in the way you wish.

This sort of coercion by family members is actually one of the reasons that we don't have internet voting yet.

I think you are actually not giving your mother enough credit. She seems very astute.

To me the word is awful and I hate to think of people being called it. It suggest that someone is lower than another and that's why I hate it.

Do you use the terms 'upper class' and 'middle class'?

If you were actually genuinely concerned just about her voting rather than her voting for who you want, you would be providing her with a wide range of materials and media concerning all parties from a range of viewpoints rather than trying to coerce her into voting in the way you wish.

Where i have said i have coerced her into voting the way i want/vote. Do rtft and stop making shit up to suit your own pathetic argument! I gave her a general run down of the main parties. At no point did i say you must vote for a certain party of my choosing. But dont let the facts get in the way of a good story though.

And for the umpteenth time i never called my dm underclass. But its a term used commonly on MN and she would have fit that criteria. But Im not seeing how its any more offensive that lower or middle class, if people are getting het up about people not being equal, cos quite clearly, we are not all fucking equal (especially in the land of politics) if we are talking about class.

How would you feel if your mother voted for UKIP or the BNP?

But if your mum didn't feel that any mp or party represented her then what do you think she should do?

I'd be pissed off if my mother who had exposed me to an abusive stepfather, had been reliant on benefits for many years couldn't be arsed to vote but wanted to moan about the impact of government policy/administration. If you'll end up bailing her out financially, then instead I'd suggest helping with her appeal against the PIP decision.

Id feel the same way towards her for voting BNP/UKIP as I would towards anyone else who vote BNP/UKIP. Suspicious of them being a closet racist. But then she could equally vote them and just not tell me. At least she'd have voted. If she did tell me, well i'd ask her how that fit in with her moral values considering that im mixed race and most definitely not white tho.

If people dont think any party represents them, id suggest they look at the party that was going to detrimentally affect them (if any, and certainly in dm's case there is despite Tory voters wanting to deny it) and cast a vote in the opposite direction.

It does boil down to, dont vote and cant be arsed to take a minimal interest enough to find out whats in your best interests (and its not little things that are being changed, her not getting PIP is a monumental change that severely and negatively impacts her whole life) then dont bloody moan when those in power shaft you like they expressly said they would prior to the vote. And since im the one thats gonna be left bailing her out, it does exacerbate my annoyance.

The underclass does exist, no matter how you go about it, they'll always exist.

Why do you think you should get to suggest to another adult who they should vote for? People do this all the time, its called canvassing, or adult discussion. I cant frogmarch her to the ballot station and direct her hand to which box she picks but i can certainly advise her which parties are definitely not going to be in her interests in all honesty unless, as above i am wrong and voting Tory is in her interests, but please feel free to show me where.

You've not given her an objective run down of the parties though have you? You've given her your opinion on the parties and told her who you think she should vote for.

As I said, if you actually cared about her voting rather than voting for who you wanted you would have cast your net a bit wider than just giving your own opinions. For example, if I was encouraging an 18 year old to vote for the first time I would encourage them to read party publicity, manifestos, as much press as they could get their hands on from the Guardian, to Huff Post, to Daily Mail. I would encourage them to read a bit of recent history to look at how the various parties had performed in office and then leave them to make up my own mind.

Although I suspect in reality they'd just tell me to fuck off and do whatever Buzzfeed suggested.

But anyway, my point is, you are obviously very partisan, so your 'rundown' of the main parties is not going to be objective or particularly reliable.

No one has an objective view of political parties though, no one. Not me, not you, not any canvassers, not MPs, not TV presenters, not political parties, not anything your read online or in papers. There is no where she could go to get an objective view,everything is produced from an angle, be it the authors own political views or the organisation they work for views so in that respect my opinion is just as valid as anywhere else. And i have encouraged her to look elsewhere, read as much as she can and make her mind up. It must be hard when im not fitting your projected idea of someone sending off for her postal vote so i can fill it in myself. Because thats what your implying im trying to do.

YABU if you think Labour are going to come in and roll back all the changes the Tories have made.

C3PU absolutely dont think that at all . You dont have to be a LAbour voter to see that the Tories are fucking over the poor, the disabled and the vulnerable.