To ask for help with BIL and DN

[IfYoureFromAfrica]

Before I flip please

This will be long...

Me and DH at home with DD19 and DD9, BIL is visiting from Germany and has come to stay - bringing with him DN12. DN lives up north with her mum and BIL only sees her once a year - if that.

They have been here since Friday night, and will be leaving Wednesday morning - DN is supposedly 'ill' this week but hey ho she gets to see BIL and we are happy to see her - especially DD9 who up until this visit idolised DN.

Since DN has been here she has:

1. Left used sanitary products under my bed TWICE. The 1st time I had a chat with her but she has done it AGAIN!

1. Has been in DD19 room non stop (DD doesn't mind too much). However, DD had a friend round on Saturday before a night out and DN spent 30 minutes in their room complimenting both the girls outfits. On Sunday morning DD friend went home and couldn't find her dress from the night before, today I have since found this hidden with DN's stuff. Havent mentioned it yet.

1. Again on Sunday... DD19 has a cropped style jumper that DD9 is obsessed with and loves to wear when it allowed lol. I heard DD9 ask DD19 if she could borrow this which DD allowed. DD9 (fussy little madam) then decided she did not want to wear it and left it outside DD19's bedroom door. On Sunday DH and BIL took DD9 and DN out for lunch, queue a photo on FB showing DN in DD's jumper!!!! Obv DH and BIL pay no mind to clothing and had no clue it didnt belong to her. DD9 bless her is so polite she didnt dare say anything. Once they returned home DD12 said it was her jumper that her mum had brought her (DD brought this abroad so deffo not the same) - again didn't mention it as I didnt want to make a scene...

There is lots more incl DN telling everyone she loves how her mum is on benefits as she gets designer clothes all the time - Michael Kors bags, Chanel make up... shes 12 ffs

I am also missing a new pair of converse trainers (funnily enough I am the same size as DN) but I havent said anything yet.

I think my real issue here is BIL, he is lazy lazy lazy and I almost feel sorry for DN but I dont think I can make it 2 more days without snapping...

Please help me get through this!!! Lots of and for me i think!!!!

I considered it relevant as you felt the need to mention you hadn't seen her in 3 years. I still do think it's relevant actually but I'm glad to be hear you're not going to be too strict on her. It was also you who said she comes from a home where she isn't properly cared fir and has a mother who sits in the sofa eating take aways all day but now you say you know nothing about the mother

I hope you managed to have a talk with your DN as I do think she craves boundaries but I also hope it was delivered with kindness. I can't remember if it was you or another poster who suggested humiliating her in front of others re the sanitary products but that is a truly horrific and cruel idea in my opinion.

I hope all goes well for your DN, your DD's and you.

I have said I don't know anything about her mother, all I know is what I've heard from BIL. It doesn't sound like they had the best end to the relationship so I am fully aware what he is saying could be bs, as most of the time it is.

However I do know she has not worked since DN was born, and since I have last seen DN she has moved 3 times to be with 3 of her new partners. so forgive me for thinking this is wrong!!

I'm also aware BIL is to blame too as I have said in my first post, he is lazy - I can't imagine it would do anyone any good to have family members at each other's throats and parents coming in and out of your life as they see fit.

On a side note DN Is being a wonder this evening, she has had the kettle on full stop and has just attempted a full game of monopoly with DD9 which god only knows is a chore on its on though.

I am still angry, and DN will be told that what she has done in unacceptable but I can't help feeling sorry for her. She is a baby really

Sounds like you're doing the best you can, OP, and no one can do more than that. She's your DN not your DD and your influence can only be slight in the circumstances.

3 moves and 3 different partners - so this child has had 3 "step-fathers" - do we need any more proof that she is going to be confused and disturbed. Someone talks of stealing and coming from a loving home - and yes I know this happens (I did too and my parents must have known but never challenged me) I have no idea why I did and and have felt shame all my life when I am reminded. BUT we are the exception to the rule - stealing and making out you get designer clothes etc is the sign of a disturbed child. Also she is a stranger in your household OP - 3 years is a long time - she won't have a clue where she fits in. Troubled children usually have a big gap between their emotional and chronological age, so she's probably functioning more as a 9 yr old.

I don't know why you didn't tell us about the child's background in the beginning OP as it is key to this scenario and drip feeding too - first we've heard about the 3 moves and 3 partners. Anyway glad to hear you have softened up a little. Incidentally why isn't the child at school - could it be she is suspended - this is term time after all.

Search her stuff. Take everything back that isn't hers. Put it on the kitchen table in a pile. And call your DN and BIL in to discuss.
She's a thief. She needs to be pulled up on it pronto.
Defend your children's belongings! Not to mention your own

I agree.

Letting her get away with it won't do her any favours in the long run. If she's not being taught right from wrong at home, then pulling her up on it now is doing her a kindness. When she moves onto stealing from shops and other innocent people, they're not going to give a toss about her home life.

I would also be searching her bags before she leaves. She'd be made to open it up for a thorough search before leaving the house. She gave up any right to be trusted when she stole the other things.

How did you get on last night?

Oh dear emmyrose what an unpleasant post. This is a CHILD of 12 you're talking about...............why do you think humiliating her is going to help - but then you're not bothered in helping the child. And no when she gets in trouble with the police no one will care about her home life and she will get her come uppance and people like you will be glad. But if it helps I can tell you that this poor child will in all probability go off the rails and will have a miserable life. And that will satisfy you I'm sure.

What happened OP?

Magic, OP hasn't softened at all..

She wasn't harsh to begin with! You painted her as harsh and cold with your dramatic begging that she be kind and put her arm around dn!

Perhaps tone down the drama when offering advice?

Also, you keep talking as if you know for sure what the girl's motives are. But you don't. You can guess, same as everyone else who's never met her.

OP it's such a tough situation. You don't really know this child at all, which is sad.

I hope your talk went well and that you have gotten your stuff back.

If you can just grit your teeth for a couple more days it'll all be over soon.

Perhaps BIL needs to spend time with his dd instead of swanning off playing football!

Yes, I've been wondering how it worked out. A tricky one.

To be fair, Walter, none of us have met her, but magic and I recognise the behaviours from other children we've worked with. Some of it is quite specific and distinctive. The information OP gave later confirms it. Those children need managing differently from children who grow up in secure homes.

magicchanges- I've seen the results of children being treated softly softly when they're in dysfunctional homes and it's not pretty. They learn how to 'play' on their circumstances and become very manipulative. OP has said the child has been acting sheepish since being told they were going to have a talk. Child knows damn well she's done the wrong thing and that the jig is up.

Yes, there are certain circumstances when am lighter touch is warranted, but letting them get away with their nonsense and pulling the 'poor me' card every time doesn't do them any favours in the long run.

Maybe if OP hadn't let her get away with it the first time, the girl wouldn't have kept on doing it.

Who said anything about humiliating the child? What a strange and incorrect conclusion to jump too. Asking the child privately to open her bag/s is a consequence of her behaviour. Do you think it's humiliating to patrons when they are asked for a bag check upon leaving a shop? This is a similar thing - only in this instance the child has given the bag checker a valid reason for wanting to see inside the bag.

MagicChanges Tue 31-Jan-17 17:59:20
Oh dear emmyrose what an unpleasant post. This is a CHILD of 12 you're talking about...............why do you think humiliating her is going to help - but then you're not bothered in helping the child. And no when she gets in trouble with the police no one will care about her home life and she will get her come uppance and people like you will be glad. But if it helps I can tell you that this poor child will in all probability go off the rails and will have a miserable life. And that will satisfy you I'm sure

What a ridiculous post, with no basis whatsoever.

Waltermitty do tell me when you became the self appointed monitor of the mode of expression on MN. If it's all the same to you I will choose my own way of expressing myself. And I'm not guessing anything - I think after 30 years of working as a social worker with troubled children I picked up a thing or two. Pickle also is aware of the child's background,manifested in the behaviours described by the OP. not that I expect you to believe that.

Emmy Your post doesn;t make sense. It's a contradiction in terms to talk of children being treated softly softly in dysfunctional homes. Yes there may be children who have been over indulged but the behaviours the OP is describing are definitely those related to neglect and the child getting a raw deal. Good god, we know that her mother doesn't care about her, she's had 3 partners in the child's life and 3 house moves - and a father who didn't see her till she was 6. How much more proof do you need that this child is going to be confused, anxious and insecure.I would also be searching her bags before she leaves.THIS is what you said that makes me think you are advocating humiliating this CHILD

" She'd be made to open it up for a thorough search before leaving the house. She gave up any right to be trusted when she stole the other things." Would you like all the family present when she was made to open her bag and how ridiculous to compare an adult shoplifter being compelled to empty her bag/pockets whatever, with a 12 year old CHILD. Do you know what a child is?

Any the OP has had enough of the thread it seems

Facts are facts, however long you have been working as a social worker.

And the fact is you don't know for sure whether that's what's happening with this child.

I'm inclined to believe that you know a great deal about the subject, however, I do hope you tone down the dramatics when working in rl.

All the hand-wringing won't somebody think of the children wailing is very off-putting.

Don't worry about "toning down the dramatics" in RL - I am aged 73 and have been retired since 2009, so you don't have to worry about that. Maybe I'll run my posts past you in future to get your approval - I wouldn't like you to be put off.........................

MagicChanges - please read posts properly.

Your niece sounds confused and is acting out, hmm I wonder why that is? One half of the origins of this girl's behaviour is staying with you, why haven't you brought this up with him? Funny how your BIL gets dismissed as lazy and a Disney Dad but the 'real' responsibility, lies with a immature 12 year old who you admit, lacks proper parenting.

Could the reason you haven't spoken directly and explicitly to your BIL about his daughter, is that deep down you know BIL doesn't give a shit and you don't want to be confronted with that stark realisation.

It's unlikely that any chat you have with your DN will have very little effect because her behaviour is a symptom and not the problem.

Absolutely Isetan - I am appalled at the lack of compassion being shown to this child by posters on here. There have been posts about searching her, making her empty her bag before she leaves, and giving her a good talking to etc etc etc. I suppose it just shows how ignorant so many people are about disturbed children - very depressing. Someone seemed to think that insisting the child emptied her bag was the same as an adult shoplifter having to empty their bag when detained................give me strength!!