That cutting benefits to widow/ers with young children by over twenty thousand pounds is heartless and cruel?

[Somerville]

My DH was diagnosed with lymphoma in 2013 and died in 2014. During both the period he was ill, and immediately afterwards, it was extremely difficult for me to continue working. A well as caring for him and then dealing with the huge administrative burden, I have children for whom continuing to attend school every day and 'cope' with normal life was impossible. Alongside all that I had to somehow try to find a way to live with my own grief. And then get out and learn a living - as a freelancer I'd have had no income at all unless I continued to work.

The bereavement benefits I received helped me immeasurably.

• I got a bereavement payment of £2000 which helped cover the immediate few months after his death when I could barely get dressed - let alone work.

• I also got a monthly amount of widowed parents allowance - about £450. (Non means tested but taxable, meaning that as my earnings increased I returned some of this to the government through my tax bill. However, I knew the safety net was there when my earnings dropped again - as indeed they did at one point when one of my children could only manage half days at school.)

I've remarried so no longer qualify - fair enough - but if hadn't I'd have received this until my youngest child left school.

However, the support available for parents who are experience the devastation of becoming widowed after April 1st this year is changing.

• £3,500 immediately.
• £100 per month for the next 18 months.

That's it.

Research by the Childhood Bereavement Network (CBN) suggests 91% of widowed parents will be supported for a shorter period of time than they would under the current system, which can pay out until the youngest child leaves school. It says the typical working family will lose out on more than £12,000, and expects a working parent with young children to lose even more – £23,500 on average. link here

Widowed parents are lone parents without any shared care with an ex partner. Without any maintenance payments from a former partner. And with bereaved, confused and devastated children.

How about it MN? Am I unreasonable to think this change is cruel? And if not, what can I do about it?

It's not my sister, it's me. I couldn't pursue it through the courts because he has remained a student or unemployed.

The sister bit is about my brother dying and the devastating effect that had on my family. There's no safety net there for a grieving sister. Is the grief of a wife more debilitating that that of a sister? I had no choice but to get on with it, despite the fact that my whole world had fallen apart.

Widows should be entitled to the same benefits any lone parent is entitled to.

"From your responses, I'm reaching the conclusion that you are nowhere near resilient enough to actually hear people discuss this"

You see, if I was sufficiently pompous and uncaring enough to actually think something like this, let alone type it, I would think that perhaps it would actually be better not to post on this thread, rather than acknowledging someone bereaved is upset and vulnerable, then posting anyway something which you know is going to upset them.

Some of these comments are breathtaking in their self centred desire to make a point, whilst trampling all over the feelings of people you know are affected by this. It's insensitive and cruel in the extreme.

What makes it even worse is some of these thoughts people are so desperate to share at the expense of others' feelings are just plain wrong anyway. I always think "you can be right or you can be kind". As some of these people aren't even in the right, perhaps they could think before posting "will this make me come across as a cunt?" If the answer is yes, just try not to post! There you see, it's easy!

I'm glad you had this, and I can understand what a difference it makes.

This government is really ideologically set on reducing the role of the state as much as they can. If you look at how much other benefits have been cut (especially shamefully those to the disabled, including care, meaning that many may be forced out of their own homes and into care homes) this is far from unique in having a terrible effect on people who really need and deserve help from society.

The trauma is different Osolea but still horrible for both.

Once again it's being assumed all abandoned children are a result of arguing parents, relationship breakdown and amicable split.

My ex had an affair and moved out. One day I was left with no income and needed to apply for benefits which took weeks to come through. I had no warning this was going to happen.

Losing a parent is awful. No one is debating that.

Actually I think having a parent abandon you can be as bad or worse than a bereavement, one there is no choice in and the other is an active choice. Children are left feeling they weren't good enough, deserving enough etc or that the resident parent drove them away.

And when they die they are often left feeling just as inexplicably that something they did lead to their parent getting their illness/in an accident/commiting suicide or whatever lead to their death.
Thankfully mine haven't felt like this but friends's children have.
None of mine sleep well - they're very worried about me dying, and about dying themselves. My eldest suffers from severe anxiety and tries to shoulder too much of the emotional and practical burden. Before Dh got ill she was completely happy go lucky.

You may be happy with going along with the fashion for post-truth but I am not. There have been significant studies on this

I have no idea what "fashion for post truth* even means, but there have "been significant studies" that show the exact opposite of what your "significant studies" show - you have been very selective with your "significant studies". Its true for SOME children. It is untrue for MANY others.

You absolutely cannot "rank" the trauma felt by different people in different situations.Yes I can.

sorry, but absolutly, you can not. Not in any way. If you think you can, then you are deluding yourself. It isn't humanly possible

This thread isn't about a creepy old uncle dying

nor am I, I am talking bout children rejoicing at the removal from their lives, by death, of parents and siblings, It happens. Just off the top of my head I can think of three, one father, one other and one big brother, whose loss have been a source of happiness for children. Actually just though of another one, a baby sister.

Schools record this information, as it is likely to have an impact later on, children can feel guilty about their feelings, and this can be a trauma in itself.

somerville, I am sorry you have had such a difficult time,, but there is no point in carrying on this discussion with you.

You are very confused and ignorant about causes and affects of trauma, and misreading and misunderstanding what is being said.

You have been in a bad situation. So have any thousands of other people.Yours is not worse because you don't think other people's situations sound so bad. It could be a lot worse for them. they might think your situation sounds cushty. If that sounds "harsh" to you, I assure you, your ignorant dismissal of other people's suffering sounds harsh to me.

Wow, well I'm more saddened to see people think kids trauma should be compared on who has it worse. They're kids fgs, if it's traumatizing for them it is. There are no levels ffs.

There is a fair argument for means testing, some widowed people get massive insurance payouts, but if you're going to means test bereavement/widow benefits, then it's surely only fair for any maintenance payments to be considered for other benefits that lone parents receive, which isn't the case at the moment. I can see why they don't do that by the way, but I do think that there needs to be a sense of fairness throughout the benefits system if people in general are ever going to fully support it.

Sorry for you loss OP

Same applies for emotional trauma. Watching their loving, wonderful Daddy waste away before their eyes, then get a phone call that he does in hospital with no one to even hold his hand then watch Mummy unable to speak for 10 days - more trauma. Mummy and daddy arguing a lot and then deciding to get a divorce - less trauma

That isn't how emotional trauma works or even how break ups happen, especially where their is abuse, which many DC witness. It is a bit unfair to suggest it is.

then posting anyway something which you know is going to upset them. why would it upset them? Maybe it hadn't occurred to them that they were not coping with this discussion, maybe they needed someone to point it out

HERE are the NUMBERS involved in bereavement benefits (From Gov. Autumn Statement 2015)

Really? Where is all the money going? If there isn't any money to go around and I am STILL paying the same tax, what the fuck is going on?

Have you not noticed the huge amount of debt the country is in?

You might be paying the same tax yet costs have gone up. You should be paying more tax.

As far as I'm aware, the amount of widowed parents allowance I receive is calculated on how much national insurance my dh paid and is somehow linked to what would have been his state pension entitlement.

Yes, mine was too. I didn't want to make my OP too overly complicated but I think it is an important point to make, you're right.

I'm sorry you've suffered this loss as well.

I feel like those of us who have been through this and are currently in a position to speak out should do so for all those parents who will be on our position after April.
Lots of people can't imagine losing a spouse to death because frankly it does cause unimaginable agony. It's an uncomfortable thing to think about, to bother engaging compassion for. Easier to dismiss those spouses and children as lucky to have had that loving parent they lost at all. Or as in no worse a situation than any other lone parent. But you and I know that's not the case.
My (second) husband just calculated for me (for a letter I'm writing to my MP) that I spent more in funeral expenses and grief therapy than I got in bereavement benefits.

Well, it seems it helped.

I think the drop is too much at once, but I think it was very generous in comparison to other benefits before.
I'd say something along the lines of 2 years or until the youngest is in full time school whichever is the longest, would give a good start.

Could you have applied for other benefits when your child came out of school? Would they potentially have been able to apply for disability allowance and possibly you carers? I would suspect there would certainly be a case there.

The thing is though, you can't compare trauma. For one person, death is worse, for another separation is worse.

I've been friends with two families, one of whom the mum died from cancer over a number of years. I'm glad her dh had the benefits so he could take time off work-he needed to both for himself and the children.
The other, one night the police came to the door and took all the computers, and he never came back to the house again. They had to cope not just with the loss of him, and his earnings (lost his job through it) but the traumas of the police investigation and him threatening the family etc.
The latter was definitely more traumatic, for both the spouse and the children in that case. I'm sure there are other cases where similar happened and it wasn't. What I'm meaning is you can't say one is more traumatic in a general case.

My ex had an affair and moved out. One day I was left with no income and needed to apply for benefits which took weeks to come through. I had no warning this was going to happen.

That's awful, and was, I'm sure, devastating to your life so I'm sorry you had to go though that.

Presumably (I'm aware I could be wrong) you had the same opportunity to work before the split that we had to get life insurance before my dh died. The state support needed in the two situations is different, the state should be making it impossible for a parent who is living to avoid paying for their children, but that option doesn't exist when one of the parents is dead and the other is already working.

Where are people getting 18 years of widow's pension from? It is 52 weeks! from the date of death of the spouse or Civil partner.

Sorry lalalalyra wasn't aware of this. Still doesn't help my situation.

I totally agree with your last post Somerville, that everyone needs to speak out about this and challenge it. And then you had to once again make a comparison to lone parents.

Many lone parents, like myself, agree that cutting this benefit so much is wrong. There really is no need to pit yourself against lone parents.

The coalition government and this Tory government made a decision to pursue austerity after the global 2008 financial crash. Some economists argue this is not the best way to recover from a crash. Some also argue that Tories saw this as an excellent opportunity to shrink the welfare state as fits their beliefs in the name there is no choice. Corporations and some high wealth individuals still avoid paying their tax which the government does not address. There is the money if the government chose to govern differently. The UK is still a very rich country.

Thai government is pursuing the American model of limited welfare provision and private insurance. The wealthy are not effected as they can afford all they need, those on middle incomes will find private insurance is ultimately more expensive than the current pooling of all citizens money for sufficient welfare if sickness or bereavement happens. Meanwhile those on low incomes are in a terrible position as they cannot afford private insurance and so if the hard times happen they are left destitute.

The disabled have had huge cuts and it seems people are accepting this as they believe there is no alternative. I am sad to see now widowers are also going to be targeted.

Osolea, we were managing with my ex working and me as a SAHM to our 2 children. I would have happily worked but didn't because at the time that was what worked for our family. If I had been psychic and knew what my Husband was about to do of course I would have prepared myself for it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

"then posting anyway something which you know is going to upset them. why would it upset them? Maybe it hadn't occurred to them that they were not coping with this discussion, maybe they needed someone to point it out"

Perhaps you need someone to point out to you that your posts, including this one, make you sound patronising, uncaring and an unpleasant person generally. I'd like to think that you aren't in RL, so perhaps you could consider how you post to avoid coming across like this? Oh, and you can change your username so you're not number eight million and one. It makes it easier for posters to engage with you.

And when they die they are often left feeling just as inexplicably that something they did lead to their parent getting their illness/in an accident/commiting suicide or whatever lead to their death.

Yeah, my youngest thought he killed his dad because someone told him that if he had an illness when his dad was going through chemo it could kill him. When he died his little head believed that he must have been carrying a bug and it killed him. Then came the eating disorder.

However, it isn't about which is worse is it? Like other people said, it isn't a race to the bottom and the OP isn't suggesting that other children facing traumatic events should have their benefits cut.

OP, do you think the payments should stay exactly how they are or are you in favour of any changes?

You've turned this into some heirarchy of grief and trauma op. It isn't.

My offence at your attitude to others suffering is as much as your offence at people not being able to understand because they haven't been in your shoes.

Yes, dimot. And of course those with health conditions who cannot get life insurance/assurance (or not at anything other than a massive cost) are statistically more likely to die young.

And the fact is that the people who need these payments the most are the ones who can't afford insurance.

The issue with lone parents is a separate disgrace. There shouldn't be so many people on this thread saying "My ex pays fuck all" or "my ex has opted out of working so I can't chase him" and that's something everyone should be shouting loud about - the CSA/CMS is a national disgrace imo. It doesn't change the fact that we, as a wealthy country, can afford to support widows and widowers with children for one year before we put them through the rigamarole with work-focussed interviews and the shit that comes with many lone parent benefits.