TRying to sell the house with tenants in - undisclosed dog

[Newbrummie]

So had a viewing at the house yesterday and the patio was covered in dog shit, as was the garden. I figured it would take a few months to sell so was happy for them to stay whilst it was on the market. Am now starting to think this is going to be impossible isn't it ?
Can I afl them to remove the dog for the rest of the tenancy ?

They may not think it is sneaky though - I think it's fairly common for AST agreements to have a 'no pets without landlord permission' clause (possibly with a 'not to be unreasonably refused' clause). Is yours a standard format AST? If so, interesting that some of them don't include the clause.

Patronising, well maybe, but they have sneaked the dog into my property

No they haven't. You simply did not safeguard your property correctly.

They went bankrupt. Such shit happens. That does not make you their lord and master.

Ciutadella There's probably isn't even a contract OP sounds dodgy as fuck!

I don't want to be their lord and master, I don't want anything to do with their problems, or them creating them for me

LouBlue1507 of course there is a contract and some of you clearly have no idea of how the deposit scheme works !

Really OP I'm very glad you are selling up because people like you should never be landlords!
You entered into a contract with these people at an agreed rate on agreed terms and they have kept their side up. You didn't specify no pets.
Rather than address it with the tenant you then come on here to rant and assasinate their character because they have fallen on hard times.
As someone who is a landlord and rents out several properties, it makes me so annoyed to see your attitude to people who are your tenants, who have been paying as per agreement the amounts YOU requested.
How hard would it have been to have popped them an email to say what you have noticed and would appreciate it was cleaned up?
I would be ashamed to have ever treated a tenant as you are doing!

Maybe the tenants would see all of that as stopping their "right to quiet enjoyment" and would, as they are legally entitled to do, tell OP to sod off until they vacate! Her need/want to sell is not their issue. From what OP has said she knows that she will have to evict so that they can go to the council and get rehomed.

They very well might tell her to sod off, as they are within their rights to do, which is why I suggested 'asking' as opposed to demanding. I do think that asking and trying to maintain good ground with the tenants is the best way to handle it in the first place, and then if they do say sod off - issue notice with no further warning and get them out as fast as you can through the court system, crossing your fingers that it goes quickly and they keep damage to a minimum.

Newbrummie Explain why no ones knows anything about the deposit scheme? What information is incorrect?

youwouldthink what exactly do you think I'm doing to them ?

OurBlanche so on the one hand you want to feel sorry for these tenants and not judge them but on the other hand if some other tenant or home owner is sat shitting themselves about loosing their home due to these guys not paying them then that's ok because it's not their fault ? Nope! Didn't say that at all. Just said that you haven't had any superiority conferred because they have made choices that resulted in them going bankrupt.

These things have a knock on effect, I'm just trying to not get caught up in it all and become the next victim. Which suggests that you too are skating close tot he edge and could go bankrupt because of choices you have made.

And have a dog shit free patio if that's not too much to ask. But it is, as you are complaining about how they choose to live in their home It's condition is none of your business until they vacate. The dog shit could be gone today, tomorrow or the morning they vacate! That is all they are legally obliged to do.

You need to remove your emotional connection to the house. It is an asset you are selling, by the month.

These things have a knock on effect, I'm just trying to not get caught up in it all and become the next victim.

That's the risk you take though when letting a property. You are leaving yourself in a precarious position if you cannot meet your mortgage payments without the tenant's rent money coming in. If you aren't prepared to take the risk, you shouldn't have got into the position of becoming a landlord.

Well for a start you are on here ranting about them. According to their contract they have done nothing wrong. They have paid a deposit and rent on time. Yes the garden may be messy and a simple matter of addressing it with your tenants would be the way to go! Morally you are a disgrace airing their personal circumstances on a public forum.
The arrogance you are showing on this thread and complete lack of regard for people who have followed your terms is beyond comprehension.
Do us all a favour and get out of the business..

If you are planning to do a bank transfer when they leave I am taking it that you did not put their deposit into a protection scheme?

If not you better read this www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit

They do not have to allow viewings at all unless they are within the last 28 days of their tenancy.

You cannot just chuck them out if they stop paying, it has to go through court and any threats or action prior to this could land you in massive trouble legally.

Secondly if they do require social housing then the council will tell them not to move and to stay put until the baliffs from the courts turn up because otherwise they will be considered intentionally homeless.

If they stop paying because they cannot afford rather than wilfully they will not be intentionally homeless.

You have to serve the correct notice whether that be section 8 if you are within the fixed term tenancy or section 21 if not.

You cannot

Enter the property without permission
Forcibly remove them or any of their property
Change the locks
Sign up new tenants until the old ones have left

So they won't be out pretty sharpish and they know it if they stop to pay at all.
In regards to their guarantor the guarantor is for the rent payments if the tenant stops to pay. I am not 100% but I am pretty sure that the guarantor is not responsible for any court fees unless you actually take the guarantor to court for non payment themselves.

I have never heard of a guarantor having to pay for damage to the property or cleaning or such but possibly they do?

In fact I have even heard cases where if the guarantor deed is not signed and independently witnessed it being rejected.

OP - you are mad trying to sell with bankrupt tenants in situ. Especially if you know they are going to struggle to find somewhere else. A) They may try and put people off buying to extend their stay in your house and B) if they (and their parents) decide that the best way out of their situation is social housing they may choose to stay until they are evicted.

Another LL here. I agree with this. If you're in an area/market where property sells within weeks or months, make sure your ducks are in a row wrt the deposit, contract, notice period etc, and serve notice. I have had many lovely, wouldn't-hurt-a-fly tenants turn on me once the council tells them to stay put until the bailiffs appear. Please don't rely on their goodwill.

For those in doubt, at least one of the deposit schemes (TDS?) allows both custodial and non-custodial deposit protection, so you either transfer the money to the scheme free of charge, or pay £15ish to register the deposit but keep hold of the money during the tenancy. So it is possible that OP has the deposit and has registered it.

Interestingly I've just reread their contract and they are in breach of several areas, which is why no doubt they are accommodating viewings etc because they haven't a leg to stand on.

BUT I'm not wanting to go down that road and hope they will just pick their shit up

RTFT!!!!

Im a private tenant and have a strict no pet policy.

If i was a landlord i would not be happy about the garden being left like that even temporary.

We are house hunting at the moment and there is no way im buying a house with tenants in or a smokers house or a garden that has shit in it. If the garden is in a terrible state regarding the shit then it will probably want re turfing.

Regarding the deposit scheme, its the deposit scheme that release the money directly to the tenants bank. They do not release the money to you for you to transfer the money to the tenants. You can request that money is returned to you for a cleaning bill if its left unacceptable but the deposit scheme will need before and after pictures. The deposit scheme decides whether you get any of the deposit based on the evidence you submitted to them to support your case.

Do you/agent do regular inspections New - is this in the contract? Surely the dog poo can be mentioned then. Our tenancy agreement states the garden must be kept clear etc

"Today 15:59 Newbrummie

Interestingly I've just reread their contract and they are in breach of several areas, which is why no doubt they are accommodating viewings etc because they haven't a leg to stand on.
BUT I'm not wanting to go down that road and hope they will just pick their shit up"

I don't understand these references to breeches of their contract. Just serve them notice, which you are entitled to do. What do you expect will happen to someone for breeching the terms of their tenancy agreement?! Why would they need a leg to stand on?

You said yourself you would direct transfer their deposit to them on the day they leave and yet you have said that posters obviously don't know how the deposit scheme works.

I have used if on five occasions so I do, you don't get to transfer it, you don't have anything to do with it. The tenant applies for their deposit back to the deposit protection scheme, you reply to the deposit protection scheme that there are no issues and yes they can have it and the deposit protection scheme pay it to the tenant. Mine took a couple of weeks to come back.

If there is a dispute you both have to agree to use the evidenced-based Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) with the DPS, if you don't both agree then a court will be the other option however they will not look good on you if you have refused the dps option.

HelsBels5000 I've just left them to it, repaired stuff when it's needed repairing, got the safety certificates etc and left them alone. Hence this was a surprise.

I don't appreciate inspections so you know thought they'd be happier without them.

So you think your buyers won't want the house empty? I don't know many people who would buy a house with tenants especially bankrupt ones

As Trainspotting said, whether or not they are breaching the clauses or not is really neither here nor there. You would then have to use the other part of the Section 8 notice which, unlike the part that relies on at least two months unpaid rent, doesn't mean automatic eviction if proved correct. Eviction by Section 8 on any other grounds than unpaid rent is very difficult indeed and often fails.

So ignore all of that. If you want them out issue a Section 21. If you don't then by all means request things, but otherwise don't bother them.

You need to serve notice asap, but you need to ensure that it is all watertight legally or the CAB will give them lots of help and ammunition and it will be protracted and incredibly stressful and expensive for you.
Do not risk being non-compliant.
Do not be goaded by the tenants into doing anything rash. I would cease viewings immediately and not have any contact with them until you have consulted these helpful people - I had a problem with a tenant a few years ago, was very stressful and worrying - they were professional and sorted it all legally and as swiftly as possible. They took on all the communication so that I was at arms length. It took about 4 months (we did have to go to court) .

We were in a rental that the owner was selling, it was awful.

She completely forgot that, although it may be her house, it was our home. The tenants are feeling awful that they have to find somewhere else to live, did you seriously think they would make it easy for you ?