TRying to sell the house with tenants in - undisclosed dog

[Newbrummie]

So had a viewing at the house yesterday and the patio was covered in dog shit, as was the garden. I figured it would take a few months to sell so was happy for them to stay whilst it was on the market. Am now starting to think this is going to be impossible isn't it ?
Can I afl them to remove the dog for the rest of the tenancy ?

[Newbrummie]

RayofFuckingSunshine it is and they have a copy of it along with the reports and energy stuff, so that's all watertight.
But honestly the frenzy is ridiculous, they won't want social housing so they really won't be all the drama being suggested. I'm 100% sure they will just go

[Newbrummie]

PixieMiss you obviously don't know how it works

[OurBlanche]

Frilly You are legally incorrect! On almost all of those points!

If you are a landlord I suggest you take the ARLA course and get yourself edumified as to the realities of renting out your property!

[PixieMiss]

Ofc not but it doesn't matter because theyre the ones that are fucked. Obviously.

[lalalalyra]

I'm 100% sure they will just go

I thought that with my tenants, but they literally had nowhere else to go. They couldn't find another LL willing to take them on so they stayed.]

I was one of the lucky ones though - they kept paying their rent throughout and were honest with me so I knew what they were doing (not soon enough to stop it, but I was able to start proceedings right away).

[OurBlanche]

But I do, and Pixie is, essentially, correct. The deposit is not yours to control! That is what the various deposit schemes were set up for.

You can ask to retain some/all of a deposit, with evidence of real loss... you cannot simply choose to! You know that! Don't you?

[Newbrummie]

lalalalyra I'm not in a great hurry so if it takes a while, it takes a while as long as they pay their rent.
Pixie I'm not the one that went bankrupt, pay your bills and you don't end up in these situations do you ?

[EdenX]

So they're good tenants, you're sure they will leave without causing any problems, and they are doing you a big favour letting you do viewings - but you still want to be petty and unpleasant about their dog?

[Newbrummie]

Wanting them to clean their shit up is not unreasonable EdenX, it's a health hazard for their kids as much as anything else

[londonrach]

Unless they not paying rent or a reduced rent its not your good will. In fact they doing you a favour allowing access to viewings. In theory you should reduce the rent whilst this is happening.

[LouBlue1507]

I'm not the one that went bankrupt, pay your bills and you don't end up in these situations do you ?

Some people end up bankrupt through no fault of their own actually! It's not as simple as you should just pay your bills!

[Greta84]

Won't your buyers what a tenant free house? As they won't be able to remove them either? Don't the tenants get to stay no matter who holds the freehold? Unless you get rid of them before completion

[Newbrummie]

londonrach they are paying £400 less than market rate, it's been a good deal for them... we live and learn eh

[Trainspotting1984]

It's not your business if they cause a health hazard to their kids though. You need to stop thinking you can influence their lifestyle decisions just because you own their home.

It's patronising

[OurBlanche]

Wanting them to clean their shit up is not unreasonable At the end of their tenancy, no, that's not unreasonable.

it's a health hazard for their kids as much as anything else That's your judgement. Tough! They live as they choose! Bankrupt or not!

Why not just serve them notice, go through the courts to evict - which they will need to get re-housed - and then put the house on the market?

[Newbrummie]

LouBlue1507 nobody goes bankrupt without someone else suffering, the suppliers, other hard working contractors that don't get paid, it's messy in every case

[RayofFuckingSunshine]

I would be pissed that they had got the dog without asking. Legally it's fine if the tenancy doesn't specify otherwise, but it is sneaky and underhand. However, as you're trying to sell id try and be as friendly as possible. I know you say you have time and the expense of getting them out isn't a problem - but it's less than ideal. Getting the house sold and them out so it can go through as vacant possession (I'm assuming, as most solicitors will want this before proceeding to exchange) is the best possible outcome, nobody needs added stress when dealing with a house sale (you) or an impending move (them).

Maybe it would be an idea to send them a message and ask if you could pop round one evening to do a quick inspection and chat about things. You could ask when they are able to allow viewings and ensure that the house and garden are in good order for those viewings, and ask how their progress on finding somewhere is going and when they'll be needing references. You could also ask that they remove the dog for viewings as a minimum.

[OurBlanche]

So, going bankrupt gave you carte blanche to judge them and think of them as lesser than did it?

That isn't what being a landlord means!

[Newbrummie]

And sure it is their lifestyle choices, dog shit, bankruptcy whatever but then those choices come with consequences don't they?
Patronising, well maybe, but they have sneaked the dog into my property

[LoveMyLittleSuperhero]

Oh dear, you saying you are going to bank transfer their deposit makes me think you haven't put their deposit in a protection scheme which puts you in a very precarious position. Here's some information from the government website:
Getting your deposit back

You can apply to your local county court if you think your landlord hasn’t used a TDP scheme when they should have.

If the court finds your landlord hasn’t protected your deposit, it can order the person holding the deposit to either:
repay it to you
pay it into a custodial TDP scheme’s bank account within 14 days

The court may also order the landlord to pay you up to 3 times the deposit within 14 days of making the order.

At the end of the tenancy

The court may decide that you won’t have to leave the property when the tenancy ends if your landlord hasn’t used a TDP scheme when they should have.

Also it is sad you didn't put a no dogs clause or a pets requite written permission line in the tenancy as it means you cant really legally complain over them having a dog. Saying that as a long term tenant with two of my own dogs I have always looked for homes without a no pets clause and then conformed with the landlord that it is ok for me to have my dogs before considering handing over a deposit or signing anything so I can see why you would be upset.

I do think as PP have said you may find selling the home difficult with tenants sat in it as it can genuinely be a very long term process evicting a tenant and if they are bankrupt they may be unable to move out quickly. I'm not saying they will deliberately cause you trouble but with children a dog and no money the council are really their only option and unless things have changed since I lived in brum (presuming that's where your house is) the waiting list is over a year long. Plus without issuing a section 21 they wont be required to move out if the council cant house them. Even after a section 21 is issued they don't have to move till you have gone through courts and sent bailiffs to remove them which as others say takes months. Again I don't think they will do this to deliberately cause you issue but I do think that it might inadvertently happen in their desire to not have their children on the streets.

Maybe have a polite, not threatening or aggressive word with them about the dog poo, explain they absolutely must clean it up, if no change tell them you will be forced to issue a section 21 to speed up the process of removing them if they continue leaving it.

[harderandharder2breathe]

You didn't do it for good will you fool you did it for money.

And you were doubly stupid for not having a no pets clause

[OurBlanche]

Maybe it would be an idea to send them a message and ask if you could pop round one evening to do a quick inspection and chat about things. You could ask when they are able to allow viewings and ensure that the house and garden are in good order for those viewings, and ask how their progress on finding somewhere is going and when they'll be needing references. You could also ask that they remove the dog for viewings as a minimum.

Maybe the tenants would see all of that as stopping their "right to quiet enjoyment" and would, as they are legally entitled to do, tell OP to sod off until they vacate! Her need/want to sell is not their issue. From what OP has said she knows that she will have to evict so that they can go to the council and get rehomed.

Any conversation she has with them should be about them starting that process together so that they all know where they are and how it will work. Reduce the stress for all concerned.

Even then they could refuse to let her through the door!

[LouBlue1507]

Newbrummie What makes you think that your tenants chose to become bankrupt? Some people don't get a choice.

[Newbrummie]

OurBlanche so on the one hand you want to feel sorry for these tenants and not judge them but on the other hand if some other tenant or home owner is sat shitting themselves about loosing their home due to these guys not paying them then that's ok because it's not their fault ?
These things have a knock on effect, I'm just trying to not get caught up in it all and become the next victim. And have a dog shit free patio if that's not too much to ask.

[LouBlue1507]

Well spotted LoveMyLittleSuperhero