If you can afford to pay for an NHS Treatment you should

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Or at least consider it. My friend was forever moaning about her MIL (hip) op being canx and saying it wasnt fair and complaining about the NHS. I know the MIL has 4 children all comfortably off - not rich by any means. It did make me think why don't you all club together and go private. If you've got the means then why not?

YABU. How about charging all the car accident victims? Its self-inflicted. They didn't have to be in a car. They should have walked instead. Healthier

LadyMonicaBaddingham - you are right up to a point. Part of the problem is not everyone does pay and those that do don't pay enough.

There are thousands of people who don't pay. Whether they should, whether we split them into "could but should"s and "really can't"s or how we deal with it is another question.

I think that is part of the point

I do believe though drug addicts and alcoholics should be allowed only so much help. But then were would it end as smokers and the obese are self injuring really. It's a tricky one

Addiction very rarely happens in isolation from other problems. Addiction services are really lacking in much of the country. Admitting someone to hospital to detox and then not following up with the necessary support afterwards is bound to fail.

And sadly (but not unreasonably) those most in need of healthcare cannot get private health insurance and would be rejected if they offered to pay to have it done in private hospitals.
Sadly, the increased use of private hospitals by CCGs is undermining the NHS who get to cope with complex care with less and less funding but who loose funding for elective surgery.

You really dont understand that you've already paid for it?
And you are deciding that someone else who's finances you know nothing about can pay for something when you dont know how much it would cost?
YABVU.
The NHS is underfunded and under attack, and this kind of thing isnt helpful.

I do pay for my care, it comes out every month, I see it in my payslip under Nagional Insurance.

I do think it may be time for a two tier system though, that being a system where those who have paid in through their working contributions get priority over those who can work, but have not paid in.

To me it's more a question of timing.

If you have a painful but non life threatening condition, like a hip, or piles, come to that! - and can afford to pay, you will almost certainly get it done a lot faster.

I know more than one person who has paid privately to get such an op done quickly, and the costs were rather less than I'd have expected. As a bonus, you have also saved the NHS and the taxpayer much needed money.

I have also known someone who could easily have afforded to pay for his hip op - he wouldn't even have noticed the money - but refused to, not because of any moral principle but because he was simply as tight they come. He preferred to wait and moan endlessly about pain and his mobility.

So you want people to pay for the NHS through their tax, fund other people, then pay for private for themselves?

That does sound completely ridiculous to me.

It's at the stage where we probably all should pay more. I have to pay (not much) for each prescription, I could understand if I had to pay the same for GP consultations, ambulance, or A&E visit. It might stop people abusing the emergency system for a start.

Unfortunately, we can guarantee that even in that system, lots of people will be able to opt out paying and the burden will always land on the same ones. It is difficult to find a fair system where everybody is paying equally.

mambono5 - that is the point exactly.

userformallyknownasuser1475360

I don't disagree with you at all (between private and corporation tax, I am paying a fair amount of tax), but you will get a beating. People who refuse to work have endless reasons to justify why they prefer to stay at home.

You can't however put a priority system based on the amount of tax paid: it would be totally unfair on our emergency services for example.

I am currently waiting for surgery. I have investigated the possibility of having it done privately. The cost is £9,500. I could pay but it is almost years wages (I work part time) from my taxed income that I have already paid my NI contributions from so I don't see why I should have to pay it. I am healthy apart from needing this op (is is as a result of an injury) I look after myself. I am the right weight for my height, don't smoke and barely drink. In preparation for this surgery I am attempting to become stick thin as it will help in my re-habilitating myself but I am unable to exercise but I am still losing so I am doing everything in my power to play my part.
Had I ever been given the chance to not pay my NI contributions and pay into a private health scheme such as Sanitas I would be thousands of pounds up on the deal. I first went to the GP about this in March of 2015 and I am still going to have to wait another three weeks to see the surgeon as there was a cock up with my referrral. Fucked if I know when I will get the op and I am in pain daily and can barely move around now. I have been off work for a month (so no longer paying tax into the system) . If there was a scheme where I could pay and get refunded by the govt. that would be a start but ....no. The whole thing is a shit sandwich. It encourages people to lie about their symptoms too. If there was a choice and people could choose their own healthcare, it might make people more aware of the cost of their own bad habits maybe.

Our health service is not sustainable in its present form. I think we know that now. Too many people using it, not enough people paying for it, poor administration and high levels of waste.

We really need to reform it for ourselves but that won't happen. Our attitude is all about choice and rights not responsibilities and it suits big business to support this.

YABU the NHS is paid for by all working people, including those who have retired and it will include young people who will work in the future. It was created to provide free healthcare at the point of use for all. It came off the back of a system where if you couldn't pay you didn't get healthcare and that led to suffering and death for those that were poor and those who had other priorities on which to spend their money (like keeping a roof over their heads. The idea of a two tier system would, in fact, be the dismantling of the NHS. Yes it is expensive and understaffed and poorly managed and, and, and. BUT it is the envy of the world because of the great humanitarian and democratic principles upon which it was founded.

My sister is needing double jaw surgery to correct a bad overbite and it will cost around £40k. There is no way in hell it could afford to be paid for by my family

If people would just buy Paracetamol themselves, it would be so much more helpful. saying you pay taxes and should get it for free is counterproductive.

Woller - sorry to hear about your illness.

I agree with you.

People already pay for their health care. It's called national insurance. The problem is the tories and the last labour gov want to privatise health care and so the waiting lists are massive, forcing NHS to clear them using private hospitals. Or coming in on their days off. I'm having to use private practitioners for my health issue as otherwise I'd be waiting ages and also for my particular problem the NHS doesn't actually provide the care I need. It would if it wasn't being overstretched, underfunded and generally run into the ground though.

I thought the problem was that if you go private, you're using the same doctors and taking their time away from people who might have been higher up in the queue than you. If some people can afford to pay more, they should be paying higher tax.

Where would it end?

The way it has done in the US, where if you are born prematurely, then you use up your lifetime cap of insurance as a baby.
If you have a pre existing condition and change jobs, your new company's insurance wont cover you, so you will be stuffed if it is something like diabetes. Or injuries from a car accident.

user a two tier system based on NI paid/not paid would be incredibly unfair. There are people who want to work but can't find jobs, people like me who work but don't earn enough to pay NI (currently you only pay if you earn over £155 a week), people who can work but don't because they are carers (which in itself is incredibly hard fucking work), and people who have a partner who earns enough to support them both so they choose not to work.

Should they all go to the back of the queue?

I don't think you can always tell how 'comfortably off' people are. They could be up to their eyes in debt you don't know about.

Private treatment is also extremely expensive and I don't think it is worth paying unless the waiting list is unfeasibly long or it is an emergency situation. Different of you have Bupa cover etc.

BUT it is the envy of the world

Really? I have been to countries with hospitals where you had to give cash to receive the medicine you were being prescribed. So yes, the NHS is an improvement on that.

However, compared to many civilised countries, our NHS with atrocious communal wards, lack of support and weeks of waiting to be able to see a doctor is not the envy of the world. Most people do not believe how bad it is when you describe the medical system in this country. (no blame on the overworked staff here).

I think though that people overestimate how much tax/ni you pay and how far it goes. I support the principle of the NHS and free education funded by tax. I do think that if you're an ordinary person with an ordinary job, you have a couple of state educated kids, and as a family you have average health, you're likely to be taking more out than putting in to the system. So it's fine to rely on the state for this stuff, but the "I've already paid for it" grates with me a bit because there's a fair chance you've had back more than you paid.

Do not forget that some treatments are ONLY available on the NHS. No private hospital has the means to buy the latest equipment and keep completely up to date with the latest research. It's really isn't that simple.

seesensepeople - I agree which is why it is so sad to see it as it is. But is is falling apart. We have to get people to contribute more.

If we keep the principles of freedom at point of use and no discrimination about using it then we need to change something else.

My uncle died because of the system of delays and referrals for one complaint after another each of which was ruled out before they realised what is was, ( cancer), and it was too late.