To say she shouldn't visit?

[Thistledew]

• I'm not actually going to be saying anything, but would like views on whether I should support my DMum in saying this, or suggest alternatives to her.

DDad is elderly and frail. He has a degenerative illness that in all likelihood is now in its final stages. He is mostly bedbound and has problems with continence. He is no longer able to wear his dentures and has real problems feeding himself. Although he has hearing aids, he struggles to listen to conversations, especially with strangers. His mind is also going- he has periods where he is not oriented in place and time, and even when he is lucid, he loses words and finds it very hard to hold a conversation. This is the very sad decline of a man who was always supremely intelligent, physically fit and very self sufficient and reserved.

I have a half sister and half brother from DDad's first marriage. They have adult children of their own. They have not been close to DDad since they got their own families, meeting maybe once a year if that. DDad does not really know any of the grandchildren, and would struggle to identify them in a photo.

His children and grandchildren have always been welcome to visit, but have never bothered.

DM let my siblings know last year that DDad was declining and suggested they make the most of visiting. It has only been since late last year that he has declined to the level described above. They have visited a few times since.

One of the grandchildren has been saying for several years now that she will come and visit, but has not done so, and several times has make and cancelled plans to come at the last minute, usually because she was going off traveling somewhere. She has now decided that she will come and visit.

She is a stranger to DDad. He will find it more stressful than enjoyable to have her visit. She will get little from it other than to look at an old man who is no longer capable of holding a conversation with her. DMum is at her limit caring for DDad and doesn't need any more work.

Is DMum BU to say that she shouldn't come and visit? Would I BU to have a conversation with my niece and spell it out that she has left it too late?

I think many PP are ignoring or not noticing what you are saying about efforts to organise a visit/get in touch previously, which she has frustrated - its particularly telling that she was after rights to some of his work and when told it wouldn't work out to her advantage planned visits suddenly off again.

I get the sense that it's never been easy for her to maintain contact or build a relationship with a man you describe as solitary and proud.

I think posts like this from ShowMePotato and others become irrelevant with the news that the granddaughter in question has felt absolutely comfortable enough to reach out when the OP's DDad has something that the granddaughter wants.

Could you plan for her to visit when somebody else will be visiting? This way your DM won't have to clean/dress your DH twice.
I understand it is difficult though.

Archery I take your point but she's asking to visit now when presumably there isn't anything in it for her except to see him?

It seems evident that your DF although has been ill hasn't been the best father he can be to his existing children and been an active role in their lives or their own dcs. I'm guessing he played a large role in your life and your dcs lives. I actually feel pretty sorry for the existing children. I remember reading such an article about how this girl and db had adored there father who was famous artist he left their mother and ended up with a second family and contact lessened when it came to him dying the family were shut out even at the funeral ultimately their family home got left to the wife and second family the first family didn't even get an acknowledgement.

I do wonder, ShowMePotato, if the granddaughter simply doesn't understand the level of the DDad's illness, and so thinks she might give it another try. (If she's young, she may not have spent very much time with people at the end of life, or understand the implications. Knowing something intellectually - that DDad is ill and very frail and unlikely to survive - and understanding the reality are two very different things.)

Why aren't people recognising that he has said no? Why does he have to be visited by someone when he has said he doesn't want it to happen?

alltouchedout obviously you are right.
But just to argue that it is not all black and white, if say my DF or DM were in a similar situation and said no visitors, I would really struggle to accept it. I think it is quite a natural reaction to want to have a last visit/last conversation/last kiss, knowing it is the last time.

Unless the situation is extreme and there is a risk of real upset (and it doesn't seem like it here) I don't think anyone should try to stop someone from seeing a dying relative. It's mainly, but not only, about her DF (who by all accounts will probably not even recognise his GD). It is also about the grand daughter. Maybe she wants to atone for not having been diligent in her relationship with him before. It's important that she is also given the chance to say goodbye/feel she has made amends.If properly managed so the GD understands what's involved, then why not?

Furthermore, if the DM finds a visit too difficult to deal with, then I think the refusal should come from her rather than OP (to avoid family conflict). But equally well, I would be surprised if issues such as tiredness afterwards, getting him ready (when he is bedbound) would be more important than a girl seeing her grandfather possibly for the last time.

Clearly there have been some difficulties/aggravation in the past. To deny the GD the chance to see him at this point seems unnecessarily cruel.

SomethingBorrowed This situation is completely different. The OP stated that the grand-daughter has never seen her grandfather. She has had her whole adult life to see him, has cancelled visits at the last moment, and put other things ahead of seeing him.

Now when he has specifically said he does not want visitors she is to be foisted onto him in his most weak state so he can be confused and distressed? Why? Because she's 'faaaaaamily'? Sorry, family are the people related to you by blood who care about you, she's just a relative.

I know, I know... Just trying to be the devil's advocate, regardless of the past, is it really right to say she can't meet her dying GF. She is not asking for a lot (even though it requires efforts from OP's DM).
Aren't we all guilty sometimes of putting things ahead of someone/something until it is almost too late? The same way as when someone you know moves far away you have to see them to say goodbye (even though you haven't seen them for years).

Anyway, in regards to OP latest posts I can understand if her family says no to the GD. Obviously a very personal decision.

Seems obvious why she wants to visit now!

I don't understand your point goingtobeawesome. Is it about inheritance?

SomethingBorrowed Devil's Advocate is a useful position to generate discussion. I suggested she put together a slideshow for her grandfather of her travels. He could enjoy it during his more lucid moments and know she was thinking of him, she wouldn't have to sit trying to explain who she is and why she is there to a confused and sick man.

I think I understand what Going means. It could be seen that she wants to visit so she can get him to give her the rights to the piece of work that she wanted. Maybe she thinks she can persuade him now when he is not always lucid. Yes its a rather callous way of looking at things but I would be wary of this OP if she does visit just in case.

I am thinking of a family situation where my cousins were refused access to their DF by his DW (not their DM) as he was dying.

Yes it's different to this situation and perhaps the niece does have less than altruistic motives for the visit, but she is his GD and it does seem to me as if faults for the relationship not being stronger lie on both sides.

I know with my elderly parents when they are ill or in hospital I go to huge lengths to visit them and manage to squeeze in very regular visits, but when they are in good health as now ( touch wood) I somehow find myself too busy to do the 2 hr return journey perhaps as often as I should.

Therefore I think she should be allowed a short visit.

DF rights come first - end of. If he's not up to visitors then that should be final. As a well person I have the choice as to who comes into my home or I visit - why should that change if I was dying.

it does seem to me as if faults for the relationship not being stronger lie on both sides

When the DDad was well, they repeatedly allowed the granddaughter to visit - it was the granddaughter who bailed on those visits. When the granndaughter wanted something from the DDad, when the DDad couldn't give it, they offered an alternative. It was the granddaughter who never followed up on this.