To say she shouldn't visit?

[Thistledew]

• I'm not actually going to be saying anything, but would like views on whether I should support my DMum in saying this, or suggest alternatives to her.

DDad is elderly and frail. He has a degenerative illness that in all likelihood is now in its final stages. He is mostly bedbound and has problems with continence. He is no longer able to wear his dentures and has real problems feeding himself. Although he has hearing aids, he struggles to listen to conversations, especially with strangers. His mind is also going- he has periods where he is not oriented in place and time, and even when he is lucid, he loses words and finds it very hard to hold a conversation. This is the very sad decline of a man who was always supremely intelligent, physically fit and very self sufficient and reserved.

I have a half sister and half brother from DDad's first marriage. They have adult children of their own. They have not been close to DDad since they got their own families, meeting maybe once a year if that. DDad does not really know any of the grandchildren, and would struggle to identify them in a photo.

His children and grandchildren have always been welcome to visit, but have never bothered.

DM let my siblings know last year that DDad was declining and suggested they make the most of visiting. It has only been since late last year that he has declined to the level described above. They have visited a few times since.

One of the grandchildren has been saying for several years now that she will come and visit, but has not done so, and several times has make and cancelled plans to come at the last minute, usually because she was going off traveling somewhere. She has now decided that she will come and visit.

She is a stranger to DDad. He will find it more stressful than enjoyable to have her visit. She will get little from it other than to look at an old man who is no longer capable of holding a conversation with her. DMum is at her limit caring for DDad and doesn't need any more work.

Is DMum BU to say that she shouldn't come and visit? Would I BU to have a conversation with my niece and spell it out that she has left it too late?

He is her grandfather in name only

I understand how difficult this is, being in a similar situation to you (very ailing father). But presumably your neice doesn't see him this way, otherwise why would she want to visit him at all? Your OP makes several digs at this side of your family - is there a degree of revenge in stopping her coming?

You have my sympathy OP. Caring for a dying parent is overwhelmingly shit, in surprising ways.

We're all playing the guessing game here. You need to talk to her, tell her about your Dad's condition, how he is. If she wants to push to see him then you will try talk to your Dad, but as it is he's not up to visitors but isn't likely to improve either.
If she insists on coming then definitely tell her that it will have to be a short visit, no more than x (possible 30 mins, 1 hour) and that if she commits to a time and day she needs to come then, no more cancellations as it's too stressful for your parents.
Or if your dad is 100% sure he doesn't want to see her then tell her that. But as a GD I would struggle to hear that, and want to say goodbye... then again they aren't exactly close.

He doesn't want her to visit, that closes the argument for me.

He has said that he does not particularly want her to visit

Regardless of the reasons why he doesn't have a relationship with his granddaughter and hasn't in the past, I believe that as he is unwell and in the final stages of his life, his wishes should be respected.

I think not wanting to see your own grandkid is awful.

Why, Bluntness? He doesn't have a relationship with her, which is as much her fault as his, and anyway, lots of people who are very ill don't want visits from people they are close to. It's a very common and understandable thing.

I agree with bluntness I couldn't imagine my father not engaging in a relationship with my DC and then his second family saying they don't want GC there are you and your DM also stating his other existing DC can't come and visit? I think it's awful when the first family is totally disregarded in favour for the second family. Reading between the lines seems to be looking that way the whole he didn't foster a relationship with his grandchildren in their childhood and your comment about grandchild in name only is extremely telling that you don't regard that side of the family as family. Do you regard her as your niece op?

I have a father like yours. And some family members like yours too. It's very distressing isn't it. I understand your feeling but I think you can't stop her from visiting unless she does visit and then upsets him. And it would cause all sorts of rows I guess, if you did try to stop her.

Give her a chance to do the right thing. She sounds typically teenagerish, a bit irresponsible but perhaps she is growing up now. If her parents barely bother to see him it might mean a great deal to both your parents if she did. I think most people want to die without ongoing conflicts and my experience is they will accept situations and people they might not have formerly in order to achieve that. She may even be a catalyst in getting other of her family members in to see him too. That would be nice for him, wouldn't it?

She is entitled to see her grandad

Nobody is entitled to see a person who is seriously ill, finds visits stressful and feels vulnerable and extremely uncomfortable in the presence of strangers.

I most certainly would not want distant relatives to visit me while I am bedbound, incontinent, and not able to wear dentures. Due to circumstances although this lady is close by blood, she is distant by relationship.

I would explain the circumstances to her. Maybe she can write to your father about her life or send him a slideshow of what she has been up to, such as her travels. He would probably find that interesting and comforting that his grand-daughter has taken the trouble to do it for him.

As your father is so ill, visits should be all about him and his needs, not the visitors'.

If your DDad has said he doesn't want her to, then she should not visit. What other people think about how family relationships should work is immaterial, really. Being old and unwell does not take away his rights and if he has said he'd prefer no visit, that should be respected.

I don't particularly want to see one of my sisters. It isn't awful, we aren't close and have nothing in common. We just share a parent. Just because you are born to a family, doesn't automatically mean you are going to have any sort of relationship with them.

He doesn't want her to visit. That's all there is to it. Who cares why they aren't close or that he is the father of this woman's mother or father. That's irrelevant now. He doesn't want a stranger to visit him when he is vulnerable so his wishes need to be respected here.

He is the person who is feeling vulnerable and obviously very unwell. She has no right to see him. Causing unnecessary stress on a very ill elderly man is not ok so you should support him in his decision not to see her. Just spell it out to her - it's too late and he's too unwell now and it would be upsetting for him having a stranger there. She's had plenty of oppprtunities but cancelled everytime.

to you and your mum.

If he has said he doesn't particularly want her to visit, I also agree that should be respected. Hopefully the situation can be explained in a way that doesn't make it personal. That when someone is very ill, especially with a degenerative condition they may well feel most things are out of their control and may also not want to be seen at their most vulnerable and distressed. There are people we are comfortable having around us at times of extremis and some that we just wouldn't. Not because we don't like them or have a particular problem with them, just that it's very hard to be seen by and talk to someone who isn't extremely close perhaps. If that's how her feels then that's how he feels.

she will probably live with horrific guilt if she doesn't and terrible anger at you if you stop her - seriously?! She's never seen him all her life then suddenly when its clear he might not have much longer to live she wants to pop over. Doesn't sound like someone dealing with lots of guilt and anger, it sounds like someone who might think there'll be a little something in the will for her.

This should be about what he wants, and him only. No salving her guilt for not bothering before.

There was no particular reason (no family feud or falling out e.g.) why DDad was not close to his adult children. Just issues of geography and busy lives meant visits seldom happened either way. DDad always sent birthday and Christmas presents.

The same would go really for his other grandchildren. They are absolutely family, and have always been welcome to visit should they have wished. DDad has been suffering from this degenerative illness for around 20 years now, so it has not been that easy for him to do the leg work. I try to keep up family relations with those of my nephews and nieces who have as adults done likewise.

There is one thing slightly clouding my perspective, although I am trying not to let it do so:

Niece and DDad both work in (separate areas of) the creative arts. The only contact that niece has had with DDad for a large part of her adult years is to ask DDad to give her the rights to use a piece of work for which he is best known. It eventually had to be spelt out to her (and working in the area she should have known) that assigning these rights was something that generates a significant part of DDad's income, on which he relies. If she wanted to put together a proposal of how she would use the rights and some sort of profit sharing agreement, in lieu of the normal fee that would be expected. She was invited to come and talk to him about her proposals on many occasions, but never did. The last time she proposed to visit but pulled out at the last minute as she was packing to go travelling was just before he had his significant decline.

I don't really understand what she hopes to get out of visiting now - it won't be to have a conversation with a brilliant and talented man, neither will she be sharing fond moments with a loved relative.

Thanks for all the replies btw. It is helpful to see that they are just as conflicted as I feel about it.

Thisteldew. I don't think the shared line of work comes into this. I think you just need to explain to her why a visit isn't viable. That he is just too ill and distressed and just wouldn't cope. Really feel for you. Take care.

Yes, I can see why you feel uncomfortable about the rights issue. She may be wanting to discuss that. Is he up to a discussion about that on a good day? Has he assigned his rights to a beneficiary in his will? It might be worth checking to see whether she wants to bring it up again...

I think it's up to your mum, if she's doing the bulk of his care and would have to facilitate the visit. If it would be too much, too stressful for her then she should veto it.

I'm afraid I disagree OP.
It is not her fault her parents didn't keep in touch with the GPs. And if you have never met your GP it can be hard, as a teen or young adult, to make the first step. Did the GP make efforts to get in touch once she was an adult?

I sense from your OP that you feel like she is not deserving of seeing him (I can be wrong)
You said your DF didn't want to see her but is that something he said once on a specific occasion or did he say I don't want to see her ever, until I die (obv not using these words)? What if he said he doesn't want his DC (so, you) to see him, would you oblige and not see him at all?

I feel it would be cruel to deny someone the last chance they have at meeting a relative. Even if it is just a short visit.

Poor girl.

Your DDad didn't keep contact nor make an effort with his grandchildren from his first family.

She, for whatever reason, obviously still feels something for him and a sense of obilgation as he is clearly ailing.

I get the sense that it's never been easy for her to maintain contact or build a relationship with a man you describe as solitary and proud.

If I were her I wouldn't want to see him but she obviously has her reasons.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, OP. Given the circumstances surrounding your father's illness I don't think it does any good to dwell on past mistakes. But I get a very strong impression from reading your posts that the fault does not lie with this young woman, nor should she be punished in any way.

It depends what "visit" means as someone else said. popping in for 10 mins fine, staying for 3 days not fine

ANd tell her that his alzheimers has advanced to the point that he will probably not recognise her and that all visits are being restricted to 30 mins at the moment.

BTW my Dad is estranged from my nieces and nephews and often bangs on about how they having made the effort - totally ignoring the fact that he has made zero effort.

If he was regularly contacting them or trying to arrange a visit and they ignored him then you/he would be within your rights to feel aggrieved. If he hasn;t bothered overly with them either (which is what it sounds like) then it's hardly fair to say that they haven't made an effort.

I'm sorry about your DF's condition - your love and respect for him is very evident in all your posts.

I'm so on the fence on this one - I can see why it's a difficult dilemma. Yes your DF doesn't want her to visit, but it does sound as if the first DCs and their family have always been kept at a bit of a distance and not had the opportunity for many reasons to build a relationship with your DF.

If you tell this GC not to visit she will take it as a snub.

I do think you could contact her and tell her that she isn't able to stay with your parents - assuming that's what you mean by giving your DM more work and that she should not be surprised to find her GF in a frail state and only able to have a short visit with him. But I don't think you can or should block it.

To be honest based on her previous cancellations, I think if you suggest that she shouldn't stay with your parents, then she'll more than likely not come anyway.

I don't have a close relationship with my maternal grandfather, due to he and my mother having a period of estrangement from my mid childhood to early 20s. I've maintained a slight relationship with him as an adult but don't see that I would feel, or have a right to feel aggrieved if I was told not to visit him now. I don't miss what I have never had.

It would only be for a short visit, but there would be more work and pressure on my mum in having to get dad cleaned and dressed in time for their visit, and then coping with him being tired and anxious/ disturbed later on.