to tell my DC good health is a gift, not an achievement?

[foolonthehill]

...and to get rid of the school attendance certificates they are given?

I am blessed with good health. So are my DC. They often get 100% attendance (and the certificate to prove it) ....DD3 is ill, proper vomiting ill...her first thought is "oh no I won't get 100%.

I am so fed up of school treating attendance like a competition. DS has been very ill in the past (you know...red letter ill, in hospital ill). First thing from school was a call to say he needed to look at his attendance...even though they knew he had been in hospital.

I am sure those with flakey attendance for spurious reasons aren't motivated by an almost unachievable 100% attendance certificate.

YADNBU

I hate this too. Some kids have chronic health problems like severe asthma. They miss school. These awards discriminate against them. Other kids catch infections - which is a normal thing, parents keep them off so they can rest and get better - they miss school. These kids are penalised.

Yes there are things you can do to be healthy.

But being born with a super strong immune system or a chronic illness should not be rewarded or penalised by schools. It is simply wrong.

YABU. Good health is not a "gift" that is "bestowed" upon someone. It's a combination of lifestyle choices and luck. It's about playing the percentage game - a, b, and c increase your changes of enjoying good health, x, y and z reduce your chances.

With the attendance certificates, yes they are nonsense and have no value in the long term, but anything that encourages some children to come into school when they otherwise might have felt less inclined is a good thing. Fear of losing a perfect attendance record is exactly the sort of thought process that we should be encouraging in our children.

When they get to adulthood, they will find that employers are generally not that sympathetic to people with poor attendance. You can argue over the rights and wrongs of this, but the fact is that poor attendance at work affects the whole team and is therefore viewed as a bad thing - even if the reasons for the poor attendance are perfectly reasonable.

Employers can have bullshit official policies that "prove" how caring they are, but the reality is usually very different. Why do you think so few companies pay sick leave? In a common-sense world, if Mr Black is sick, a company should positively want him to stay away so that he doesn't infect Ms Whyte, Mrs Green or Mr Brown. But companies generally only pay statutory sick leave, because they expect the sick employee to make every effort to come in.

A child who has the "come in at all costs" culture instilled into their mindset at an early age will have an advantage over their less-committed peers when they enter the world of employment. Employers need consistency because an employee who is consistently at work and works to a consistent standard is a known quantity - they can be relied on. In most roles, aside perhaps from particularly creative ones, a consistently-average employee is valued above one who has moments of brilliance but cannot be relied on to be there when you really need them.

So yes, it's a good idea that schools try to cultivate this attitude, regardless of how worthless the attendance certificate is in itself.

Fear of losing a perfect attendance record is exactly the sort of thought process that we should be encouraging in our children.

Even the ones who know they will never achieve a perfect attendance record?

*some children treasure their certificates"

Do you really have so little empathy for those children who would really love to have the opportunity to treasure a certificate but ever won't be able to because people like you just can't get their head around how discriminatory it is?

If good attendance is a worthwhile achievement, that means you have nothing else to show for in your school career.
And i agree its a pointless award for small children. They don't have much control if their parents take them to school or pull a sickie at every whim.

What others have said - good health can be an achievement, partly - but luck is still involved, and if you have an infectious disease, staying at home is the sensible thing to do.

If children get a certificate for 100% attendance, then that should be a reward for never missing a schoolday without good reason, not for never missing a day at all.

Moreover, I do not think going to work sick is a good thing for adults, either, so should not be encouraged. I know the job market would like for people to be machines, but I do not like that attitude, either.

Pengggwn Wed 25-Jan-17 17:40:58

"corythatwas: So chuck the certificate. You don't have to accept it. But some children will treasure their certificates because they do reflect their effort. Let them."

That is not the point. The point was that my son had learnt that attendance was what really mattered. He had completely internalised that he was successful because he was always there and got the regular certificate, while his sister was a failure because she, and others like her, were the target of the talks on attendance which accompanied the handing out of certificates.

When he was told he had the same disorder he felt he had been removed from the "satisfactory" category into the "unsatisfactory" category.

My chucking a certificate wouldn't make a difference while he had to sit through those talks.

Just to repeat again: unlike sporting certificates, attendance awards are not there to celebrate achievement. They are there, as heads and Ofsted freely recognise, to change statistics. And that they try to do by presenting absences (whatever the cause) as "undesirable behaviour".

That is a big difference. People who watch Usain Bolt run do it because it's fun to see somebody run very fast. They don't need other people to feel bad for not running, because this is not about changing anything in the population as a whole. Attendance awards are very definitely about changing everybody. And that is pretty tough on those who know they can never be changed.

Also i don't get this "rewards for everyone" culture. It really devalues the actual achievement.

Fear of losing a perfect attendance record is exactly the sort of thought process that we should be encouraging in our children.

That was the fear that drove dd to try to kill herself.

Her previous school had made a great job of instilling in her that if you cannot have a perfect record, nobody is going to want you in adult life, just like you say, barinatxe.

Head teachers and teachers had been telling her exactly what you are saying about future employers. And as she knew her condition is incurable, the conclusion seemed pretty obvious...

Fear of losing a perfect attendance record is exactly the sort of thought process that we should be encouraging in our children.

Obviously this is complete ballshit. It is not in any way admirable to go into school work when you are unwell. It is selfish and irresponsible.

If children get a certificate for 100% attendance, then that should be a reward for never missing a schoolday without good reason, not for never missing a day at all.

This is the only sensible strategy. Penalising a child for illness (which they have zero control over) or necessary appointments is ridiculous.

Certificates aren't horrendous in themselves, I remember when I was at secondary and people got their 100% certificates we'd all just sort of roll our eyes, it was the same ones who got them every time and they were a) the sort who'd rub it in everyone's faces because they had nothing else to celebrate and b) the ones who came in and gave their sickness bugs etc to the rest of us, only our parents weren't stupid enough to send us in anyway. No-one really gave a shit about the certificates other than the people getting them.

The problem is when it becomes big, tangible rewards that people are left out of. Trips to places like Alton Towers etc. That's just plain cruel to kids who don't have a hope in hell of getting 100% because they've got a) chronic illnesses or b) sensible parents.

Pengggwn Wed 25-Jan-17 18:26:02

"corythatwas: Sorry I can't agree. 100% attendance is a real achievement for some children who struggle with school. I would rather keep the good and let parents like you educate your children as you see fit, ie that attendance isn't important"

So that is what you've taken from my posts. I have explained that my dd was desperately anxious for her education, that her chronic condition forced her to be absent for hospital treatment etc, I explained that the school made her so fearful of the future as a chronically ill person that she attempted her life- and what you get from that is that I think attendance is not important!!!

Not important- dd and I would have done anything for her to be well enough to attend every day in her life!!!

But the problem with the whole rhetoric around attendance is that it is, as barinatxe mentions with approval, designed to instil fear of failure. And when failure is certain, that fear can get overwhelming, particularly when a child is told that the same problem will make them unable to cope with adult life.

Ds hardly ever gets ill but had norovirus last term meaning he had to take a Monday off and now he's got this hacking cough that's going around - first thing he said - with a raging temperature and not being able to keep anything down - 'but I won't get 100% certificate'
Our school has a whole assembly at the end of term to give out the certificates and celebrate those who achieved 100%

Pull a sickie and take your kid to Alton Towers

For the record, dd did not die (despite trying several times). She grew up, she is holding down a job, she has just been accepted onto a very competitive HE course.

She does not have a perfect attendance record at work, and of course that is an inconvenience for her employer- but what is the alternative? Would anyone tell me, what is the alternative?

She has to work, she can't live off the taxpayers. She has this disorder because it is incurable, she can't get rid of it. What would more fear do?

The best way to improve attendance statistics is to provide a fantastically engaging curriculum. That in itself would be the reward for attending.

Teaching children to ignore their illnesses is going to lead to some awful mental health issues in the future as they won't recognise when they need to stop, rest and recuperate.

Pengggwn I rather think the point is:

whilst you may now 'understand where corythatwas is coming from'

after she has shared a lot of details of a heart rending situation

many many people DONT and this stupid Govt tick box 'attendance cert' culture only entrenches the idea that we must all be productive robots regardless of our health needs.

That is unhelpful for the long term health of Society as well as judgmental and divisive

x post with bettycat81 who has put it rather better than me

there can also be a link between the engaging curriculum and health - a child whose educational and pastoral needs are being met is less likely to need time off. Obv not in the case of measles / broken leg etc but kids with ASD / Dyslexia / Anxiety are far more able to cope with taking part in a daily curriculum that meets their needs.

Similarly, workplaces that offer decent staff support packages, whether healthcare like John Lewis or Counselling etc like some other firms do so BECAUSE they recognise that it is a sound economic investment. They look after their workers, who then need less time off for illness / stress / exhaustion. Not making them dance for 'attendance certificates'.

There are other ways that children who turn up at school regularly despite problems at home can be rewarded. Individual certificates for effort, kindness and helping others are something that can be earned by anybody.

cory I'm really pleased that your DD is doing well. 4 of my ds's and I have the same condition as your DD (DS2 and DS4 severely) and I remember your helpful advice to me when my now 8 year old DS2 was younger.

I don't have school age children, but it sounds like attendance prizes are completely ridiculous and a waste of time!

Surely it'd be better to give certificates & prizes for actual achievement e.g. academic or sporting.

Rather than award you for just turning up for school!

Rewarding effort as well as achievement is incredibly important. Lots of kids by the nature of a distribution curve are not ever going to get top grades or win races. But absolutely reward a specific effort-this is far more meaningful for a child.

Both the primaries we've attended have had weekly star awards for a specific behaviour. I would have no problem at all with an end of term recognition in a similar way. That way you could also reward effort in different ways for those kids who don't struggle to attend.

And unjustified absence for most of primary is an issue of parenting. A child who doesn't have a parent interested in taking them to school might be making great efforts to get there and not succeeding. Missing out on a treat is not fair on them either, any more than a child with health issues.