to tell my DC good health is a gift, not an achievement?

[foolonthehill]

...and to get rid of the school attendance certificates they are given?

I am blessed with good health. So are my DC. They often get 100% attendance (and the certificate to prove it) ....DD3 is ill, proper vomiting ill...her first thought is "oh no I won't get 100%.

I am so fed up of school treating attendance like a competition. DS has been very ill in the past (you know...red letter ill, in hospital ill). First thing from school was a call to say he needed to look at his attendance...even though they knew he had been in hospital.

I am sure those with flakey attendance for spurious reasons aren't motivated by an almost unachievable 100% attendance certificate.

It is essentially a good health certificate. How the fuck is that right?

I knew of a child last year who had attended school every single day. Except one day he was badly hurt in the playground. Mum was called to pick him up. He never got the certificate at the end of term due to that.

The certificate is utter bollocks. I repeat. Utter bollocks.

Having had a dd who sat through long school days in pain, who crawled on her hands and knees to get to lessons (yes, literally), who read everything she could lay her hands on when laid up in bed, it would have been nice if the school could have recognised, just once, that she was actually putting far more into her education than her healthy peers- instead of constantly making her feel a failure. If somebody could have written that on a piece of paper just once.

My second child was completely uninterested in his education. He turned up at school because he couldn't be bothered not to, he sat through classes paying minimum attention, both we and the school had to be on his back constantly to get any work out of him at all. But he got attendance awards. Of course he did. And they were the only non-specialist awards going.

The only thing these awards managed to promote in my dc was school refusal in dd by the time she got to secondary (because she was too frightened she wouldn't be sent home if she had a bad turn), and an attitude in ds that making an effort doesn't actually matter as long as your bum is on your seat.

Usain Bolt is fast because of his freakishly long legs among other things.

he still trains bloody hard though, even him. He doesn't get gold medal only because he turns up on the day.

He doesn't get gold medal only because he turns up on the day.

But he wouldn't get one if he didn't turn up, would he...

It wouldn't be punishing him if he didn't race due to being off sick.

It is disability discrimination. Every child I know with a disability has had to attend hospital appointments, therapy sessions, or had periods when they are not able to attend. But let's just give all the non-disabled kids a certificate and a party to reinforce that they are better than the disabled ones....

This may out me but never mind. In the run up to Christmas a newsletter was sent home from DS school reminding people not to bring their children in if they had vomited etc as bugs were doing the rounds.
The next paragraph was then stating that those children with 100% attendance would be allowed to wear their own clothes on the last Friday of term I.e. Christmas jumper day and no-one else would be taking part!
Needless to say that did not happen after countless parents complained to the head about it- kids with 100% got a certificate in the end which I still don't agree with.
My DS has had a lot of hospital appointments of late and we got a letter saying his attendance at 95.8% was below the schools target of 96% and I should speak to his teacher or the head to see what they could do to improve it! I spoke to both the teacher and the head and said if they would like to take away his health issues then his attendance would be 100%
My DS would certainly prefer to be at school than undergoing a barrage of tests at hospital- i suggested they check their records as to the reason for the absences in future

They hide behind mis-implemented OFSTED rules. I checked with OFSTED. They do not agree with punishing kids who have suffered enough from their health. They really don't.

But they do expect schools to take action against poor attendance with not much guidance on how to do it. Don't get me wrong, these ice cream parties etc that people have mentioned sound horrible and divisive, but unless schools are told officially that attendance doesn't matter, they are still expected to be seen to be doing something about it, despite what Ofsted say.

interesting points....

wrt thistle. Yes we want our children to turn up when able but surely NOT being able shouldn't be punished randomly (for a second time). And yes promoting healthy living is a good thing, but that's not the same as rewarding a random throw of the dice of "health versus illness".

Yes I forgot to mention the inter-class competition that is the bar graph attendance in the school hall. One class has a seriously ill child who attends about 2 days per week. DD2 says "poor class XYZ it doesn't matter what they do they aren't going to get the party at the end of the year." Imagine how that child feels in the class.

Even though my DC know my feelings on the matter..those who are approval motivated still want the certificate and the class party..and those who couldn't care less, couldn't care less! Soif doesn't even work as a motivational tool.

This is nothing like sport, and I say this as a competitive sports person.

Firstly, as pp says, I don't win because I rock up on the day with my "good luck". Sure, there's some genetic predisposition there, but that is the same for everyone I compete against; what distinguishes us is our effort and training. Not built for my sport? No problem, you do it, you don't win. School is a good time to find out what you are and aren't good at, although it's good to learn to push yourself at something even when you don't have a natural gift for it, because a lot of achievement in life is FOR YOURSELF. Not good at sport? Don't have to do it once school's over.

Plus when you lose, what do you lose? In the grand scheme of things, not much. The experience of losing will encourage you to either do better next time or not do it again! Not really an option with illness... You can try all you like and fail, fail, fail. You can't opt out. EVER. And what do you get if you lose? Not only shame and disappointment, but the unavoidable suffering and enjoyment-limiting effects of illness. Hooray! Punish that suffering, because it's exactly the same as not getting a medal when you don't win a race, right??

So it doesn't even work as a motivational tool

Exactly. And if it is a motivational tool, surely its me who should be offered a certificate and a party, because its not my children who decide if they are going to school, its me!

DD3 didn't get a 100% attendance due to attending an appointment the school wanted her to attend (I did not feel the need for it to be done - Autism assessment - they agreed with me no autism)

DD3 however was pleased she said " Yay no I spread my germs for everyone else to catch certificate"

I do however think OP that once children have been hospitalized or is under specialist care then we need to look at the " automatic" offsted induced " procedures" Last year ds was very ill with a kidney issue. His total attendance was 76% (having in the past only rarely not had 100%) He is still under Great Ormond Street care. I was in close contact with his school through out all of this so school was kept well informed. School on several occasions sent him home as he had started vomiting in school. Or because his back had begun to hurt.

He had x 5 appointments at GOSH 1 minor operation and a week off to get the bigger operation that ensured his kidneys started draining again. School all informed and supportive. We then received a letter " you know one of those " we have to send out letters" to talk about his attendance. I found that really unpleasant and unnecessary. I also do not find it acceptable that they " have to send them out" simply to show they are following certain standards. I know had I received that letter during a day where ds was very sick It would have greatly upset me.

1 year on and he is back on track with having an almost 100% attendance. However he wont get it as we have already had 2 GOSH appointments and will have 1 more.. All follow up to ensure that the kidney is draining and doing as it is meant to be.

To me that needs looking at. The moment a child is in hospital and the school is made aware (we gave copies of appointments from word go - and sick certificate from GOSH after operation) then a different type of procedure should be followed IMO.

I think my ds' school is a good school compared to others!
Ds used to receive red attendance letters, but always with hand written notes saying not to worry.
I think most of the problem is down to each school.

I don't think they do them at our school. Although maybe they do, and I am unaware, as DC would not have got one anyway. Not the sort of thing that would bother my DC, I don't think, but horrible for the ones that do take it to heart (as they have every reason to do).

My child also has a lot of hospital involvement, often with some quite uncomfortable or scary procedures. I generally buy them a toy after every hospital admission, and we always go out for cake/ice cream/lunch after every outpatients visit to a specialist.
According to one of the mums I know, this is highly unfair to my other child, who misses out by having to be in school. I laughed the first time she raised it, I thought she was joking, but no, she really thinks that.

Even as a motivational tool it is seriously suspect: you miss one session and the incentive has completely gone. You have nothing left to work for (apart from all the benefits that school brings which should be incentive enough in the first place)

Schools usually complain that it's impossible to identify children who should not have these letters sent out. I don't get that. Universities manage far, far larger student numbers by a simple code system.

One reason why the Usain Bolt analogy doesn't work is that he has chosen to go into athletics. If he had no talent for it, nobody would force him to take part in this race.

Sick children are entered into this attendance competition whether they like it or not. They have to watch their mates being given awards and ice-cream parties and have everybody see how they are excluded. They have to sit in assembly and listen to speeches from the HT about how bad it is to have poor attendance and how it is bound to scupper your chances in life.

I have some minor physical problems which make me fairly incapable of playing football. But then nobody makes me turn up at the local stadium and sit through the trainer's pep talk about how anybody who doesn't achieve x is letting the team down.

I also think this is unfair . Dc rarely ill (touch wood ) so almost always get the 100 attendance award ( done by term here ) but it's luck isn't it it's not an achievement that they had any influence in . It's unfair on those who are ill what are they meant to do go to school and make everyone else ill? Or for those with more serious or long term conditions just have something else to set them aside from their peers ?? Really not fair on young children at all

Round here I thought it was maybe as an incentive to those whose parents are less pushy about getting Dc into school or on time ( 1 missed session would equal less than 100% attendance ) but as others have pointed out those parents probably won't be bothered by the certificate and also once again it's the child suffering not the parents anyway !!

When this topic comes up, I always wonder why people never complain about art/music/ sports/drama/academic awards. They maybe a results from hard work, but also can be just luck of having a talent/gift, isn't it?

Because those things require some effort and time put in . Dc not being ill is totally out of their control

When this topic comes up, I always wonder why people never complain about art/music/ sports/drama/academic awards. They maybe a results from hard work, but also can be just luck of having a talent/gift, isn't it?

But those are an achievement- how is not being ill an achievement!?

irvineoneohone Tue 24-Jan-17 10:37:10
"When this topic comes up, I always wonder why people never complain about art/music/ sports/drama/academic awards. They maybe a results from hard work, but also can be just luck of having a talent/gift, isn't it?"

Well for one thing, the child who spends half his time in hospital is hardly likely to get one of those either.

But more importantly, music and sports awards are not handed out with an accompanying message that everybody ought to be able to achieve them and that children who have not achieved x % of a music accomplishment or a running time have failed and must reform immediately.

It is quite easy to sit through a sports awards ceremony and think "well this doesn't touch me, I'm glad for Amy that she did well". But no child is allowed to think that about attendance; that is not the point of this award.

irvine, did you read my post about my two dc: one hard-working who put herself through a lot of pain to get an education, and the other who turned up every day and never did a stroke of work

what message do you think it sent, to the two of them, that he was the one who got awarded year after year?

what did he actually achieve by dozing in the classroom?

I don't complain about art/sports/drama/academic awards because although children may have some natural aptitude that gives them an advantage they still have to apply themselves to achieve them.

A talented musician won't get the award without practicing. A talented writer won't be rewarded if they don't write something.

I always hope there is scope to reward effort and application too, not just results.

But let's just give all the non-disabled kids a certificate and a party to reinforce that they are better than the disabled ones...

No, Better Attendance, not Better Person award.

In exactly the same way, hurdles don't discriminate against people in wheelchairs.

This is a reward for those who win it, not a punishment for those who don't.

music awards don't get given to children who turn up for music lessons and never practise

sports awards don't get given to children to make it to football classes and walk around the pitch in slow-motion

arts awards don't get given to children who just sit around playing with the paint pot

this is the one award that you can get while being bone idle

I was in hospital for most of my first year at secondary school, I missed out on the start of French lessons. When I went back in I knew it would be hard work to catch up. I went to see the teacher and ask for help, she looked at me and said, "I've got enough to do helping the thick ones" (her words, NOT mine!). "You are a bright girl, teach yourself!" She didn't give me a list of topics to learn or anything. I tried, but couldn't catch up. Once I realised it was impossible, I hated French lessons and used to take days off when we had double french. I learnt that I could take a lot of time off school and still come top in all exams except French and music. By the time I was in a position to drop French I did, but the amount of comments I got from teachers made me not want to go full time.
I used to walk into a class, the teacher would do a register and say a full class and user1484766714. It was funny the first time, but the fourth or fifth time that day made it annoying. I'd then know when the teachers had been bitching about me, because I'd walk from one class to the next getting the same thing screamed at me as I walked into the classroom. In the end my attendance fell to about 60%. I could go to school and get grief or I could stay home and get none. I didn't give a stuff about certificates, I'd have been happy to not get grief, for having time off, when I did show up! Even as a adult, I still feel panic and sick when I drive past my old secondary school. Schools can do a lot to promote attendance, but making it a welcome environment when children do come in from time away would be a good start! Not making them have meeting with senior members of staff to make them feel like they are in trouble.