Pollution in London

[Almondmilk]

Is it that bad?

I think Almond is banning everything with a combustion engine piglet, but I knew you'd be ahead of the diesel thing

I think the pollution is worse than it's been over the last 10 years, you can actually taste it in your mouth. Yuk. I wish some gifted scientist would invent some kind of filter that could go on diesel cars to mop up the pollution, it would cost a fortune to replace all diesel cars...

The black snot is from certain tube lines. You don't get it on the Victoria and only certain parts of the Northern line but it's almost guaranteed on the Piccadilly and Central lines.

I wish some gifted scientist would invent some kind of filter that could go on diesel cars to mop up the pollution,

Most diesels since about 2007 have this already - Diesel Particulate Filter (Dpf) - mandatory since 2009 and fitted to many earlier cars, my 2005 car (since replaced with petrol) had one.

Smog in London isn't new - my Dad was in this and it wasn't much fun -
www.theguardian.com/environment/gallery/2012/dec/05/60-years-great-smog-london-in-pictures

Diesels emit less Co2 per mile travelled than equivalent petrol cars on the whole so are not all bad.

There are no easy solutions.

Black snot isn't a London thing, it's a Tube thing. It's to do with metal particles circulating down there. I don't use it unless there is no realistic alternative and don't get black snot.

Not necessarily, Eorochick.. I get it in other European cities, just from air pollution, without use of Tube.

But, black snot or not, air pollution in London has reached record levels.A non-easy solution is better than no solution.

so wasonthelist is the problem that London cars are too old to have the Diesel Particulate Filter (Dpf)? I thought the problem with the diesel was that the emissions were more harmful than petrol?
I am (obviously) not an expert though, so would value your opinion on what would improve the situation.

Dpfs are to catch the particulate emissions, which are especially risky to health (there is no safe limit for particulates).

Central London already operates a Low Emission Zone which bans some older diesel vans, lorries, busses, minibuses and even ambulances.

But diesels emit more Nitrogen Oxides which are injurious to health than equivalent petrols.

However, as I mentioned before, Diesels use less fuel and emit less Co2 (which is why they became so popular as governments were chasing Co2 targets.

There are no simple answers. London is getting back to 1952 pollution levels (side note - not all environmental legislation comes from the EU - the clean air acts pre-dated our membership) but the source is different and not so visible.

Interestingly, the population of London is getting back to 1950s levels too www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387463/Population-of-London-heads-for-return-to-1950s-level.html

IMHO the longer term solution is of course to reduce emissions - but we also have to at least consider trying not keep cramming more and more people into big cities by acting to try and spread economic activity around a bit more and making travelling less necessary.

We are a long long way from where we need to be on so many fronts though - the fact that so many of our manufactured goods and even food is shipped and airfreighted half way round the world is not a long term strategy for the planet. Nor is banning diesels whilst planning to build more runways at Heathrow - none of it is joined-up.

Whilst I wait for my bus on the gridlocked South Circular each night I see a lot of lone drivers in cars, maybe we need little Smart Cars for single person journeys a bit like Boris bikes, and people keep their family cars for weekends. London public transport is pretty decent but not as attractive as sitting in your own space listening to the radio!
You are right though wasonthelist we do live in a f*cked up world at the moment.

Tube travel always gives me black snot, walking or bussing doesnt.

I dont understand why anyone who lives and works in London drives in London. Public transport is the best in the UK, admittedly that isnt saying much but still!

SarfEast ZipCar is expanding rapidly, enabling lots of people to not bother with a family car - half my neighbours dont have a car and just hire one when they need it. If ZipCar had some 7-seaters near me, I'd join them. So more likely to have people owning a small vehicle for work if that would do.

Most drivers in the week are either going somewhere for work that needs a car, then home, or have heavy stuff to carry - in the rush hour it usually takes longer to drive. But on the other hand you get a seat.

We need a larger LEZ and probably a Ultra Low EZ, faster than vehicles are currently getting upgraded in response to variable road tax. I'm not sure how punitive the road tax on ancient diesel lorries is, but clealry not enough if they aren't being upgraded (but doesn't affect non-UK lorries, which is why the LEZs are needed). Hopefully more goods will come by train to Barking now there is the rail link to China, so could have some green vehicles meeting those trains.

Cities are the most efficient way of getting services to people and people to what they need (jobs, shops, entertainment), but England has a real over-centralised in London problem. Which is proving really hard to change, despite the BBC in Salford and Cardiff and various other efforts.

The air seems bad to me today. Are there any measures Londoners should be taking to try and protect themselves?

I think everybody running their engine while stationary need to be slapped with an in the spot fine of £100.

Planes dumping fuel with fines in the thousands.

Won't solve the problem, but it would be a start.

I was in London today. It was very noticeable gave me a massive headache. We don't want to end up like Delhi where you can see no more than two meters in a hotel lobby (inside!) sometimes due to pollution, smog... We should do something about it now

I was in London today. It was very noticeable Same here. Have come home on the train with sore gritty eyes, a tight chest. DC at uni in London - apparently loads of the students have coughs at the moment and are feeling rough.

If you have a respiratory condition, London is not a good place to live. There are alerts at least a few times a year about toxic levels of pollution, and people die.

if i spend a few days there i start developing breathing problems so must be the air, then again it could just be use of the tube that place is filthy

Lived just off Oxford street for 5 years and developed bad asthma. Moved to Brighton and it's completely gone.

Brushing aside this problem as "it's no worse than anywhere else" isn't good enough. People need to be demanding change. In San Fransisco the buses are electric, for example. Why didn't London and other British cities start looking into this years ago?

I have asthma, pollution very high at the moment
thing is I dont' blame cars because ironically if I had the option to drive to work rather than suffer the poor air underground and then walk through the pollution, I'd rather drive.

I do run in my local area (about 14 miles away from central) but no way could I do a lunchtime run near my office, I start coughing just when I cross over the very busy road that leads to it.

I think the fog kind of trapped a load of pollutants so hopefully it will get better in a couple of days.

It's been utterly grim for the last week - permanently in the news, and with good reason. Sadiq Khan has done a lot of talking and precious little acting.

Nobody thinks that London's air is going to be crystal clear, but it shouldn't be taking years off our lives.

I'm backing the ULEZ (ultra low emissions zone) to be extended all the way to the N Circular, and to include ALL diesel vehicles. I'm also really encouraged by the idea of road pricing (so that, for e.g., you wouldn't pay to drive in C London if the road are quiet, but you would, at any time of day, if they're congested).

The news has made it's way to Sweden, top news today. "Dangerous pollution in London. Children most exposed."
Source (in Swedish): www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/farliga-luftfororeningar-i-london-barn-mest-utsatta/

what's the deal with low emission vehicles - are they not being made in large numbers or are they not popular among consumers? Are they too pricey? I haven't driven for years so not au fait with all this.