My first AIBU! The word 'gotten'

[MollyHuaCha]

Why is this creeping over the pond into our language? AIBU to be bothered about this?

Scottish also, early 30's its commonly used in my neck of the woods.

Using "sat" in that context is wrong.

Using "gotten" isn't.

I am all for language change and observation. It fascinates me. It's also interesting to note that many of the posters on these threads having the vapours over a perfectly acceptable word make far more errors in their own SPaG. Maybe they do that ironically?

the thing is Vintage, that once enough people say something, it cannot be 'wrong'. That is because there is no academy of English to say what is right or wrong. This is one of English's strengths as a world language, that is can evolve so easily.
So bad news for pedants perhaps, but if enough people say 'sat' instead of sitting then it is perfectly 'correct'.

BorisJohnson- I think you'll find British English was ruined (to some extent) when successive crackpot governments of both persuasions decided there was no point in teaching the English language to children for whom it was a native language.

That's why we have entire generations (some of whom are very much adults now) who make the glaring errors that the hee-hawers are so very ready to mock.

Oh, I agree Brat- I'm an empiricist linguist, not a proscriptive one.

But right now, when I'm marking my kids' papers, "was sat" still gets a wobbly red line underneath it.

I do think it will be one of the first "errors" to become standard though, and why not? As our beloved David Crystal says (and about which John Humphries goes into a blue funk) "if it is used, it is correct". Not sure I can go quite that far, but I get what he means.

I'd also love some of these soi-disant pedants to come and join us on PC...you may find you begin to see language in a totally different way...

I too hate the "so" that is often used at the start of a sentence nowadays ( and have posted about it before).

I've noticed that it seemed originally to be used by people being intreviewed, for example on the radio, to begin their response to a question. It always sounds to me as though the speaker is using the "so" to introduce a rehearsed response, and therefore sounds forced.

It has probably become more widely used because it's thought to lend an air of authority/intelligence.

We know it's the end of civilisation when people in England start saying they could care less.

Like Liinoo's MiL, I am Irish, and "gotten" has been common usage here in Ireland for as long as I can remember. Likewise, "Can I get?". The latter is gramatically inelegant but not inherently rude.

A previous poster mentioned the use of "Look" to start a sentence. That was Tony Blair's vocal tic of choice and its use seemed to become prevalent at the same time as he did.

To me, " Can I get" implies an element of going to fetch. For example, "Can I get a book from that cupboard?"

It sounds wrong to me if the speaker is already in situ, for example in a restaurant.

Whilst we're on the topic ( pedant alert!), in most of the circumstances in which it's used, it really ought to be "may" rather than "can"....

DH uses "can I get" it makes my teeth itch. He doesn't see anything wrong with it despite being careful with his grammar normally.

Fozzley my German teacher used to say "Du kannst, aber darfst du?" (You can, but may you?). I wish we'd been taught English grammar.

"So" used at the beginning of an utterance is known as a "slot and filler" term and is a signposting device to let the listener know the speaker is gathering their thoughts prior to starting.

It's not formal, but I doubt many of us see it written in an application letter.

(and I admit I had never heard the term "slot and filler" until some of my kids showed me their book, called, Slot and Fillers. )

Yy to ass instead of arse. I'm always ticking off my dp and reminding him an ass is a donkey as he isn't a yank he's from Belfast!

Sat and lay used incorrectly drive me batshit. It's just very lazy and of course nothing to do with America.

It's a sign of middle age, isn't it, when you find that usages that already seem normal to the generation below you, still have the power to grate? I see myself recast as the redoubtable Dowager of Grantham ("Weekend"? What is a "weekend"?) and at some level I quite enjoy the sensation. It's a reminder that we are all part of a continuum and that one day it will be ds who does a quick double-take at some expression which quite simply is not right.

I like "Can I get...". Language evolves. That is what makes it so fascinating.

"VintagePerfumista

"So" used at the beginning of an utterance is known as a "slot and filler" term and is a signposting device to let the listener know the speaker is gathering their thoughts prior to starting.

It's not formal, but I doubt many of us see it written in an application letter."

Exactly.

I find "Look," as used by Bliar and co patronising and rude. It is the equivalent of someone wagging their index finger at your face.

"Ifailed

We know it's the end of civilisation when people in England start saying they could care less."

People in England? Oh good, that must mean the rest of the UK may use it if they please. Cool.

‘Gotten’ is widely used in Ireland. Not a new thing either. Maybe the Americans got it from us.

I am Scottish and have never heard "gotten" used in speech. Kids use it in writing but then kids use all sorts of things in writing.

Cara did you see the post on another thread this week in which someone confidently asserted that "Northern Ireland is classed as still part of England but the south is a separate country"?

"Manumission

Cara did you see the post on another thread this week in which someone confidently asserted that "Northern Ireland is classed as still part of England but the south is a separate country"? smile"

NOOOOOOOOOO!!
Drat. I missed that particular gem. Dearie me, such woeful ignorance.

Dp from Belfast has never said gotten. He alleges he has never said 'what about ye' either

Lots of things annoy me, but the use of "gotten" isn't one of them. Because it has two syllables, it often makes a sentence flow better, imho. And it's a usage, as others have said, that is retained in "forgotten" and "begotten" (not that I use "begotten" very often).

One usage that I see a lot (including on this thread) is "that" to mean "who", e.g. "I had a friend that..." or "There was a man that..." I don't know why it's so prevalent now.