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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To document my attempts to seek mental health support with the aim of raising awareness of how hard it is?

65 replies

JoannaPublic · 13/01/2017 12:14

I am 33 weeks pregnant. I have been seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder and its effect on my pregnancy since I was 25 weeks pregnant. Everyone from whom I have sought help agrees that I need to be seen before the baby is born. Everyone from whom I have sought help assures me that "someone" should and will be able to help, but nobody can tell me who this "someone" is or where I can find them.

To date, I have tried:

The GP: They can only refer me on. In the past, they were sometimes able to offer short-notice 10 minute appointments to allow me just to talk a bit and in theory still would. Like most GP practices, though, they are currently inundated with patient need, with the result that it can often take hours or days to get through on the phone, and the only appointments available can often be weeks away.

The midwife: She has given me endless extra time and appointments, and has advocated tirelessly on my behalf. She is not trained or licensed or insured to deal with PTSD herself, and so like the GP can only pass me on.

The counselling service attached to the GP: I am on their waiting list, but they cannot see me before the baby is born. From what I have heard locally, they will not have the experience or the expertise to help, but I am willing to try anything.

Health psychology: They used to be able to treat pregnant women with PTSD, but are no longer commissioned or funded to do so. They are not making an exception for me.

The local perinatal mental health service: I do not fit their local criteria. Firstly, they tried to refer me back to health psychology, finding as I did that health psychology will not take me. They are now trying to refer me to a local primary care psychology service which has no specialism or expertise in pregnancy or PTSD, and which has waiting lists of such length that I am unlikely to be able to see anyone before the baby is born. The process even of referral from the perinatal mental health service to primary care psychology will take 7-10 days - which, given that I only have a maximum of 7 weeks left, seems a very long time.

The antenatal ward at the local hospital: Due to medical problems with the pregnancy, I have been admitted several times, and during each admission procedure, I have been asked the routine questions about my mental health and about whether I would like help. However, I found that, by saying that I would like help, the ward could only refer me to health psychology or perinatal mental health, neither of whom will see me. Like the GP and my own community midwife, the hospital midwives have been nothing but kind and supportive - but they are overstretched, and not trained or equipped to deal with PTSD.

The Samaritans (116 123 from UK landlines and mobiles, available 24/7): They are very good, and I cannot recommend them highly enough. But they are not a substitute for professional help, and would never claim to be. And unfortunately, some of their volunteers do sometimes say "I'm sure if you spoke to your GP, he would be able to find you the help you need". This isn't helpful, for all the reasons I have explained.

The local private sector: I am (with the support of my DH and midwife) currently ringing round all local private therapists. So far, all of them have said they either cannot help with my specific difficulties, or that they cannot help within the timescales needed. I am not in London, am not in the SE, and do not drive, so this limits my options a bit too. But yes, I probably will find someone eventually. If I didn't believe that I might, or if I couldn't potentially afford to pay for it, I wouldn't be posting my experiences here on Mumsnet.

And yet, having documented all of this, I realise that I am in a privileged and fortunate position. I have a good support network, the education and literacy to be able to seek and request help, and the money to pay for what the NHS cannot provide. If things are this bad for me, how much worse must they be for women who lack the voice to ask for help and lack the money to pay for it.

So having documented all of this, I am asking the following

  • Could we all please end this culture in British society of telling distressed individuals simply to "get help"? To tell someone to "get help" implies that there is help available - and as my story illustrates, this is not necessarily the case, and certainly not necessarily the case at the point at which the individual needs help most.
  • Could any readers or posters on here with any political or strategic or media influence please use my story to lobby for better availability, accessibility and funding of mental health support for pregnant women?
OP posts:
AnxiousMunchkin · 14/01/2017 02:46

Don't think anyone was trying to argue with you? But being defensive and not clarifying exactly what the problem is - I don't mean give your life story online, I mean clarify as to why it is you're falling between services - limits both the help that people might offer and the impact of your primary point in highlighting the failings of NHS mental health provision using your own case as an example.

Reading this I can't see anyone doubting you or wanting to argue with you, I just see posters empathising and wanting to support and help you.

JoannaPublic · 14/01/2017 03:16

If it would help, I would gladly answer all questions with documentary evidence in a PM or email to MNHQ. However,

  1. I am not going to disclose to this thread the source or origin of my PTSD. I'm feeling fragile enough as it is, and I fear that just one response saying "no, you can't really have gone through that" might really tip me over.
  1. I'm not going to disclose any more about why specific MH services rejected me or why/how they referred me onto other services. To do so would risk identifying the services in question, and thereby both the individual professionals to whom I have spoken, and the NHS trusts responsible. From my experience of working within the NHS, trusts will sometimes scapegoat individual employees to cover up broader systemic or organisational failing. I don't want that to happen to any of the staff members to whom I have spoken.
OP posts:
Broken11Girl · 14/01/2017 03:38

I do think some posts were unhelpful, think OP has provided enough information. She is right to not identify herself or staff.
I believe you.
A lot of people don't fit ridiculous arbitrary 'criteria' and fall between services.
Keep posting Flowers

3littlebadgers · 14/01/2017 03:44

Op I pm' you a name, I hoe you find the help you need Flowers

BBCNewsRave · 14/01/2017 05:14

A lot of people don't fit ridiculous arbitrary 'criteria' and fall between services.

It's extraordinarily hard impossible to find out what the criteria actually is. It's almost as if they make it up as they go along. Hmm

BillSykes I assume the reason why you don't fit the criteria for perinatal mental health is that the root of your PTSD is something which predates/is unrelated to your pregnancy and they can't deal with that because they are so specialised.

This seems ridiculous odd. Surely the perinatal mental health team is for all pregnant women/new mothers who have some kind of mental health problem? If not, what is the criteria and what provision is there for the others?

Also, if the PTSD isn't related to the pregnancy, then why does being pregnant exclude the OP from other help (ie. CMHT) any more than, say, a broken leg?

Is it not blatent sex discrimination?

OP - I believe you, and know how infuriating it is to hear the "get help" line trotted out and people really believing there must be someone who will help.

I'm wondering what the urgency is with regards to treatment before the baby is born? Or is it more getting some kind of support to see you through even if you begin treatment later? That's not meant to be a stupid question, I've battled for years to try to get nonexistent help myself... I'm just wondering if there is a way of sort of battling through a bit longer - if pregnancy somehow disqualifies you from services, maybe it would be different when you're not pregnant anymore? Has it reached such a pitch that you will not be able to care for a newborn? Will friends and family provide support during this time to sort of scrape by for now?

I'm sorry I can't do anything to help. I'm also wondering if chasing help is becoming a despressing vicious circle - if you feel no-ones taking you seriously it's very painful, especially if you have been through traumatic experiences that have been invalidated by others. Might it help a bit to focus your presumably limited energy somewhere else for a while? I've certainly had times where Ive had to focus on basic survival rather than waste energy dealing with MH team bollox.

I don't know what else to say. I'm so sorry you are going through this... Un-MNy hugs to you Flowers

BillSykesDog · 14/01/2017 09:20

BBCNewsRave, perinatal mental health doesn't have arbitrary criteria. It's for MH problems which occur during pregnancy or the first year and are usually pregnancy related like pre or post natal depression or post natal psychosis. It's a very specialised service. If you have other longstanding serious MH issues you don't automatically transfer into perinatal mental health just because you've become pregnant, mainly because the doctors specialise specifically in perinatal MH issues and don't have the expertise or training to treat other conditions. So if you'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia for a number of years your MH care would stay within the general psychiatric system rather than transferring to perinatal mental health as they are best placed to deal with it. It's the difference between a pregnancy related condition and a non-pregnancy related condition that just happens to be affecting a pregnant woman. It's sort of the same logic that you wouldn't send a pregnant woman with a broken leg to have that treated by obstetrics just because she was pregnant when the expertise for broken limbs is elsewhere. Obstetrics treat problems related to pregnancy, not all health conditions pregnant women have. Similarly perinatal MH treat MH problems related to pregnancy, not every mental health problem a pregnant woman might have.

It might sound kind to say 'well it should cover everything' but it's not. The reason why there is a specialist perinatal MH service is to make sure women suffering pregnancy related conditions have specialist help which is specifically tailored to them, if it became a general mental health service for the pregnant that expertise and specialisation would be lost. Likewise people suffering from specific conditions would not be directed towards the doctors with the right specialisation to see them. You simply can't run a service with a doctor specialising in each condition because if they only see one or two women a year with that condition they can't retain a doctor with the expertise to treat it so they would have to be seen by someone without a deeper understanding of their condition. Everybody would lose out.

Probably a better way to deal with it is to have some sort of system of prioritising referrals for pregnant women with non-pregnancy related conditions. But then you get into all sorts of thorny issues about how fair it is for men and non pregnant women using the same service to be leapfrogged and wait longer.

It's a nice idea to just say 'Well let's have a service which treats every MH problem for every woman', but in practice it's just not that simple.

megletthesecond · 14/01/2017 09:24

Yanbu. I've given up now. Spent a fortune on a wonderful private counsellor last year but could only afford three months.

My gp will do anything I need when it's a physical problem. MH issues are sent packing and told there's no help.

BillSykesDog · 14/01/2017 09:26

Although you're right about the sex discrimination, I suspect that the Health Psychology department may actually have it wrong here.

RandomMess · 14/01/2017 09:58

Shocked at some of this responses.

I've moved long distance - the service I was under doesn't exist here! In fact they have one therapist who sees patients long term and he plans to retire. It is a postcode lottery.

My MH during my pregnancies was awful, again no help unless you have psychosis.

It is purely a funding issue, the clinicians I have seen up here are retiring early because of how the patients are not being treated. One of them was fuming the other month, I am now to be referred to as his "customer" and we meet in an "interview" room. So I'm not a client or patient and don't receive treatment.

Sorry rant over!

MichaelSheensNextDW · 14/01/2017 10:10

Have you contacted Mind? www.mind.org.uk/
Flowers

KnittedBlanketHoles · 14/01/2017 12:04

Mental health services are refusing to see me because I discussed that I am self medicating with substances (addiction). My auction support worker keeps trying to refer me to mental health as a large part of my using is... mental health.

Saw crosswise team and few days ago following a suicide attempt and... they sent me home with no further referral, nothing.

Eating disorder service discharged me in 2013 as I'd been through all of their workers with no improvement. They also won't accept a referral unless I am substance free.

GP won't refer me for help with particular physical problems (colo-rectal) until I'm both substance free and have my eating disorder either managed under a team or no longer an issue.

Get help. Yeah, I tried.

KnittedBlanketHoles · 14/01/2017 12:08

*disclosed that

*addiction support

*crisis team

(Wish there was an edit button)

KnittedBlanketHoles · 14/01/2017 12:13

I inferred from the OP that the PTSD trauma related to a previous labour (or similar), hence the need to be seen before due date. I could be wrong but I can see how some things are time dependent when pregnant.

lollylou2876 · 14/01/2017 13:55

I have had ptsd for 24 years initially in a great job, at the age of 19. Was horrifically abused from 4-14 years disclosed to ss, who didn't take it further.

In 2011 after a long hard court case abuser gets 20 years in prison, I take the newspaper article to show/price to gp who fobs me off for cbt/emdr.

I started getting flash backs at 20, told to go home and watch snooker, to help me sleep by gp.

Went back to gp, told only suicidal people get referred for psychiatric evaluation. And sick notes are for ill people prescribed anti depressants. But end up having to resign from well as can't cope. Gp then eventually does refer to rape clinic who send me a massive form to fill out about what has happened to me in depth which I cannot face doing or asking anyone to help.

List loads of jobs over the last ten years even my civil service position, which frankly changed my life.

I have repeatedly been to my gp who regardless of proof and a court case and conviction doesn't understand my needs.

The hallelujah I saw a private psychotherapist who after a ten minute chat tells me I need trauma therapy can't believe gp has never done this, and it is normal to avoid the cbt/emdr as lack of professional help means I'm still stuck in the avoidance phase.

Today I'm writing a complaint email but just feel worn out and let down I'm so so tired of fighting it, I will probably end up having a nervous breakdown before I get the help I need, which is sad really, when Ive known what I need for years

lollylou2876 · 14/01/2017 14:04

Oh yes and the teams if being induced during childbirth caused g lash back nurse tells me to stop being silly and I need to pull myself together despite informing then beforehand I was a csa survivor and then again when u had to have cervical cells removed at hospital, had a flashback just left in a corridor, no one Knowing what to do. I should of been back 3 years to recheck for growth but it was to traumatic to go back. Even though I know this could be dangerous but guess what tell gp still no help

butterfliesandzebras · 14/01/2017 14:45

it appears from your own post that it's actually a very specific set of your own circumstances which is causing you problems accessing services

I completely disagree with this. I have seen how poor mental health provision is in this country, both for myself, and a family member who killed themself after being turned away from crisis support. In my opinion it is the majority of people suffering from mental health conditions that are left unhelped, and a minority of people with specific types/categories that can get help.

The ops experience sadly doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

There used to be so much sigma about mental health conditions that people didn't ask help. Then there were tons of campaigns etc, and so many more people are coming forward for help. Tragically, that 'help' is rarely forthcoming, and people then feel even worse.

It's a complete disgrace.

BBCNewsRave · 14/01/2017 21:55

BillSykes perinatal mental health doesn't have arbitrary criteria.
I didn't say it did. I was replying to a PP who was talking about general MH services.

It's for MH problems which occur during pregnancy or the first year and are usually pregnancy related like pre or post natal depression or post natal psychosis. It's a very specialised service.

I'm sure I've heard of people being referred when they have MH issues and then become pregnant - due to higher risk of depression or psychosis. But anyway, if the other service won't see her because she's pregnant - what do they think the perinatal MHT is for?

DrunkOnEther · 15/01/2017 18:11

My experience with peri-natal mental health was that it's a pure postcode lottery.
I had a history of mental health problems, and was referred to peri-natal services when I was 12 weeks' pregnant. They were wonderful - I had a very knowledgable and empathetic psychiatrist, and a brilliant specialist CPN, and access to the Mother and Baby inpatient unit. My psychiatrist actually kept me on in the service until my DC was nearly two years old, and even went through the process of getting me a diagnosis of Aspergers after the immediate crisis had settled down.

However, I was informed that I lived at the very edge of their catchment, and if I lived only 5 miles further north there would've been no specialist help whatsoever. So it's purely to do with what's available where you live, unfortunately.

My experience of general community mental health/crisis team/inpatient treatment was very much more mixed, but I suppose I'm still here - although largely due to paying for a clinical psychologist privately.

JoannaPublic · 16/01/2017 20:14

Update Today I managed to secure a same-day assessment with a private psychotherapist, found by family members. I liked her. I liked the way that she was completely transparent and straightforward about what she could and couldn't provide, and I liked her honesty in telling me that she was unsure of whether she can help me sufficiently before the birth. But she is willing to try, and that's good enough for me.

The only question then becomes: can I afford to see her? Probably, yes, but it will be a massively nail-biting squeeze, and nobody will be getting many new clothes, day trips or birthday presents this year.

And then the question becomes, what would be happening to me now if I couldn't pay? Throughout the media, people are looking in horror at the crisis in A&E departments and waking up to the realisation that NHS acute medical services are no longer sufficient to serve the needs of the UK population. But what this thread seems to have revealed, via the numerous posters who have reported that "I only got help because I paid for it", is that NHS mental health services have long been insufficient. Why has the media not noticed?

I've now stopped crying about the NHS mental health support which doesn't exist or which I cannot access. Instead, I have started getting angry about the pregnant women who cannot afford the private sector help available, and wondering.. what can we do about it?

OP posts:
JoannaPublic · 16/01/2017 20:15

Arrrrrrrrgh name change fail. Bugger. it

OP posts:
PresidentOliviaMumsnet · 16/01/2017 20:40

We fixed it

JoannaPublic · 16/01/2017 20:44

Thank you so much Flowers

OP posts:
janemg · 16/01/2017 21:04

I know of a charity called talking2minds who deal with ptsd specifically.

BBCNewsRave · 16/01/2017 21:21

But what this thread seems to have revealed, via the numerous posters who have reported that "I only got help because I paid for it", is that NHS mental health services have long been insufficient. Why has the media not noticed?

I had to have an operation recently, and I was surprised how quick it was, and then the doctor was surprised at my surprise! Couldn't believe I thought "within 4 months" (for a routine op that makes little difference to quality of life) was quick... Whereas for psychotherapy the wait is 2 years to never, depite it making a huge differenc to quality of life. I don't think peope realise or know about it unless they, or someone close to them goes through it. Also I guess more people die if physical health is ignored... Actually, I'm not sure of the details (or where to find them) but the NHS policy on investigating suicides is seriously lax iirc. Get turned away from crisis and kill yourself and no-one cares. I'm not even sure if they automatically investigate inpatient suicides.

I'm going to shut up now because I'm just being depressing...

I think to do something about it we have to make it palettable to the general public, as the lack of giving a shit about mental health is a symptom of a much bigger problem. I suspect people who have had the means to pay campaigning for those who have not might be a start.

throwingpebbles · 16/01/2017 21:21

Huge synagogues. Here for handholding and understanding. I too have battled PTSD and pre and post natal depression.

I can't post more now but wanted to send a message of support Flowers