Mainstream or special school- experiences please

[Lazymazy1]

I would describe my ds as having mild to moderate learning difficulties. (School is saying moderate - severe) global developmental delay, no diagnosis.
Special school around here is ofsted reg terrible ( I've visited and very chaotic and wasn't favourable).
Anyway, my initial thoughts were to keep ds in mainstream (has FT 121) just for better chance in later life with jobs and less stigma, however, speaking with another parent who says it's like trying to fit square peg in round hole. Child would be unhappy.
Prepared to move away to get a better special school for him.
What are your experiences ?

This was about 20 years ago, in a very rough secondary school, but I remember with horror one poor girl with LD who was sent to our school by her parents. They thought it was for the best, and to this day, I doubt they know how badly their daughter was treated.

She joined us about half way through, year 9 maybe. Instantly object of ridicule. Lots of people would try to be her friend so they could get her to 'entertain' them, or they'd wind her up, or they'd take her lunch money. She didn't realise that they were bullying her.

I knew she'd been subject to a lot of violence, though hadnt seen a lot. One day, I went out to the bus stop, and she was lying on the floor, curled up and being kicked by a group. Others stood round laughing. A lot of kids were there, no one did anything to help. I managed to get her out, with the help of my best friend, and took her back to the school, spoke to the deputy head etc. She said they could do nothing as it wasn't on school premises. Utter rubbish obviously, but upshot was nothing was done. Thankfully she left a few weeks after, but I'll never forget hiw vulnerable she was.

This was a long time ago, and I hope things have improved, just bear in mind the capacity for cruelty and bullying in secondary schools. I truly hope she has a good time in school whatever you choose.

I don't know why I said she, I mean he, I think I got caught up in remembering.

If your son does go mainstream, I'd make very sure that he's been treated well by his classmates. I'd be very concerned about the bullying aspect, though much less so for junior school.

I don't know if this helps at all, but I work at a mainstream secondary school which is highly regarded for its SEN provision, and teach a Year 9 group that has a significant number of high-need students in it. Making adequate provision for those students is an enormous battle and several factors are adding to that challenge:

-significant changes to the way funding is allocated has reduced the number of TAs within schools, meaning that staff have to be more 'creative' - four of my students are likely to be entitled to 1:1 support, yet staffing has just two TAs within the group;

• changes to the GCSE syllabus have essentially put my subject out of reach to many of my SEN students who are now unable to access the new, more stringent, qualification - short of drilling them how to answer questions in every lesson from y7-11 they stand little chance of success yet that would significantly limit their enjoyment of the subject. Equally, due to the changes in reporting of academic achievement, schools have less flexibility in 'allowing' alternative pathways for students whose needs are not best served by traditional qualifications - students are almost forced to continue with academic qualifications rather than able to access more suitable vocational qualifications as these are increasingly devalued and being phased out;

• as students mature, the gap between 'average' students or those with mild SN widens dramatically. Students with behavioural problems will often find themselves in bottom sets along side SEN students who really need a calm, controlled atmosphere. Whilst good teachers are likely to manage behaviour effectively, the two teaching styles are not particularly cohesive - high energy, active engagement to maintain the concentration of your 'naughty but average' students and consistent, calm over learning for the high-dependency SEN students.

I seriously worry about my SEN students and their progress in the coming years. I years gone past, mainstream has been able to provide a really positive learning environment for almost all students, but increasingly I worry that it can't do that any more - the world has changed around us.

I

I'm going to be honest, because I think you and your DS deserve honesty. What may not have been explained to you fully yet, is the there is an almost inevitable widening of the gap between a child with SN and their NT (neurotypical) peers. Think about it:

For a NT child to keep up with their peers, they have to learn at a rate of 1:1 - they have to learn just as fast as their peers.

For a child with SN, if they are, say delayed by a third of their chronological age (moderate SN) they have been learning so far at a rate of 1:0.66. If they have severe learning difficulty, they are delayed by at least half their chronological age, so they have been developing at a rate of 1:0.5. A child with profound and multiple LD may have been developing at a rate of 1:0.25 or even 1:0.10...very slowly indeed.

So to close the gap with peers, these children who so far have been developing at a rate of less than 1:1 will suddenly have to develop at a rate of far higher than 1:1, but 1:1 is what children without LD manage, so it's almost impossible to expect.

A real example: my DD was dx with GDD at 3. A spiky profile with moderate and severe delays, but overall 'moderate learning difficulties'. She was 12-18 months behind at the age of 3. Now, at 11, she's best described as operating at around half her age, although still no sense of danger. So she's now 5.5 years behind.

Special school will teach life skills which are so important to the development of children with SN. DD1 learns about money by going to the shops. She learns about weights and measures by cooking. She learned to count by walking around the school, counting coats. She has independence and expectations are high. She is seen as an able learner.

DS was originally in a mainstream school, it became apparent very early on that he was struggling academically, socially and emotionally, by yr 5 DS was way out of his depth, the school, whilst it proffessed to be the best school for him and the most inclusive failed to live up to its reputation, DS became a victim of exclusion and discrimination.

He had a statement in juniors but was not formally assessed by an Educational Psychologist so co morbid conditions weren't picked up until recently.

He has been in an independent special school for a number of years, will be taking some GCSE's and he will go to college when he is ready.

There are some mainstream schools that have a great reputation as being fully inclusive, our experience seems to be more of the norm rather than the exception.

I agree with a PP - I have seen students in mainstream secondarys whose needs are not being met by the simple fact that we do not have the facilities, staff, training and curriculum.

My DS has always attended a SS and now attends a SN FE. Whilst obviously they have taught him subject specific i.e. maths, english it was life based rather than 'exam based' for instance there was a lot of focus on money in maths. He also has received travel training, life skills etc rather than being forced to undertake History, Geography etc. (There were students in his class that did take some GCSEs)

The biggest piece of advice I can offer op is to push for a dx. We were lucky in that DS received a Statement (as they were then) aged 4 when he was not diagnosed but I know parents that struggled until they had a formal dx. He was offered SS straight away and although we also were offered a mainstream place I knew in my heart that despite it being a fantastic school it wasn't the right place for him.

In terms of schooling it is far easier to go from SS to mainstream than the other way - but you need to be honest with yourself on your DS's needs and what learning he will need

Thank you for all of your advice x

cricket what is SN FE?
Been struggling for 5 years to get a dx
They( Drs) believe genetic. However, there is a further genetic test which I should chase up again about . I will do that today.

dixie such a worry - what to do for the best.

These stories have made me , just so sad. The mainstream claiming to be all-inclusive etc when in fact, sometimes that isn't possible for various reasons.
I'm Incredibly protective as I'm sure you can all feel and understand yourself. The thought of bullying, child not understanding why the other kids are being cruel, just cuts.

loug I always thought I could help with the gap widening -teaching him myself 😲

flutterwoc that is just awful, surely the GCSE curriculum should be more open to those with varying needs, or there should be an alternate pathway, to those who are not academic to secure alternate qualifications, such as vocational qualifications. Its not the child that is broken and needs fixing, its the education system as a whole.

When I was a child in primary school in the 1980's, I was very developmentally delayed and really struggled at school, my behaviour reflected my immaturity. Always being told off by the teacher and big red crosses in my work, inability to concentrate. Being an outcast as my peers did not want to play with me as I was odd or 'spastic' as used to be called.

Back then, there was very little provision for SN, the teacher told my mum I needed a one to one, but provided nothing. No statements back then, you struggled. I went to an independent secondary school, my dad was a Freemason and was dying and got me into the Masonic school. No SN provision, but I costed a long. we were streamed, so I was in the bottom sets for Maths, English and Science, but I was taught with others like me of similar ability. I managed to get 4 GCSEs (A-C) including English. It was hard.

But the good news is, I went to college after school and did a GNVQ advanced Health and Social care where I gained a Distinction and City and Guilds Maths. The tutor was so supportive, and positive, and encouraged me to apply for uni, which I did. I went to a non RG Uni, but I got a 2:1 BA (hons) in Psychology and an Msc in Health Psychology.

What I am saying is SN does not have to be doom and gloom, I know that some children will never go to uni, or get formal qualifications, I hope my story provides some hope. I hope that my developmentally delayed ds nearly 5 has similarly positive outcomes, who knows. He was a lot like me, I see me in him. With the right help (school are applying for an EHCP) as he's significantly delayed, he can fulfill his full potential.

But yes it is the education system that is wrong and broken, not our kids.

My son was in mainstream for a couple of years and then moved to specialist school. None of the local special schools were suitable. Too large classes, too noisy, no regular speech and language therapy and occupational therapy and the staff didn't have enough specialist knowledge.
We found a specialist independent school that could meet his needs. After a short battle with the local authority they agreed his placement there as they knew we had enough evidence to win a tribunal.
He has been there for 4 years and is thriving. We live just close enough for him to be a day pupil but if necessary we would choose and fight for weekly boarding over the alternatives.

This thread has really got to me. I have a DD who is 8 and has a diagnosis of ASD. She is in mainstream but as someone said earlier I want her in a setting that is different rather than her being different.

I have looked at school after school and am failing to find one suitable but she is so far behind her peers now.

There is also a massive lack of places.

I have sleepless nights worrying about her and where she can go to school and what will happen in the future.
It is exhausting and worrying and really truly terrifying. There is no one to help and I feel desperate at times.

SN FE is a special needs college; he is continuing to learn life skills, travel training, basic cooking, shopping whilst still learning maths, english and IT.

I will also add that our thought process when deciding between SS and MS was the other children in the class - not from a bullying POV but in terms of their learning - how much time will the teacher need to spend on my DS and not the other 29 children?

In terms of bullying in secondary - in my 15 years of working as a secondary teacher I have never met anyone being bullied because of the SN which actually does surprise me, but the students whom I hand on heart feel should not be in MS tend to go under the radar for the general population and are basically ignored by the majority.

Aeroflot is correct in regards to the system; it is set up in favour of the academic students and not for those who will never get A/A* - it is bad enough for those who are are in the middle but in MS for those who can not access GCSE it has gotten worse. (I'm proud though that my current school has recognised this and has taken students out of some lessons to cover the ASDAN set of units)

Stradbroke sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it gets far worse when they are 16+.

My DS is currently at an FE full time, however his classmates from his previous SS were classed as 'too academically capable' as they managed an E at a GCSE so they can only access a basic course that is 3 days a week at mainstream college.

When DS has to leave his current college (he has been given a further year there so will do 3 years in total) then there is far more limited provision - our preferred option is a college that operates a life course over 3 years which will slowly introduce him to supported work placements - however this is expensive and the LA would prefer him to so a life skills course at the local college which is an 8 month course (so what he does after that god only knows) however this biggest hurdle is transport.
DS knows how to catch a bus, however he is very, very vulnerable as he thinks everyone is his best friend and has no danger switch at all. the LA want him to walk 1.2 mile on an unlit path with no pavement to reach the bus stop, take a bus into the city centre bus station (not the nicest place in the world) then another bus to our preferred college. If he was to go to their preference then he would have a 1 1/2 mile walk to/from the bus station

sorry to derail op but this is just the start of having to fight and fight for the best provision for your DS

cricket hadn't even thought of college provision.

spikey aero love the positive outcomes

Thursday
I hope this thread helps others in similar situation. strad would you being a position to move elsewhere with better provision.

Those who have found excellent SN provision, would you willing to say which LA you in .

It's like they have no clue cricket my ds is the same , he would be really vulnerable.

How can they justify a transport situation like that.

Anyone thought of highlighting the problems within the media?

I hate this comparing children with others that is happening in mainstream school. They are not seen as individuals, but as robots. Some will be academic, some not, and go into mabey Apprenticeships and trades. Already at 4, my ds is seen as broken in relation to his peer, functioning 2 year below according to their FACT. I hate that teachers may have low expectations of him, they already do, I am fuming, writing off children when they are so young and have so much development ahead. My storey above illustrates that fact, that you do not know how the child will be in 5/10/20 years time.

I see ds do so much at home, is very capable, but not at school, and I was the same, its frustrating for me as a parent, saying to the teacher, he is able to talk to other children, he is able to do this or that. Its the education system that is wrong, mabey we need to be more like the Nordic countries. In some countries they don't start formal education until 7. Mabey ds hates that type of education curriculum, and would appreciate a more play based one which Finland have. Even at foundation level, it seems to be in ds school, a lot chalk and talk.

When at mainstream he seems to retreat and loose his skills. When he does positives, he is progressing btw the teacher said, but there is always a bit BUT!!!!!

I have an older DS who is about to start secondary so I would move if it was just her but more difficult with too.

And the thought of a battle overwhelms me. It shouldn't be like this.

One example of ds, is when he has a poo at home it can be a little messy if its a splogy one, I have wipes and the cleans himself up by himself after using the toilet, if his clothes are dirty, he takes them off, and tries to put new ones on most of the time with success. At school he had a poo accident and he sat in it for 1 hour before the teacher noticed.

In school he plays alongside others, and does not really play with anyone, at home when he bumped into one of his school friends in a shop with me, he greeted the boy and told him about going to the Space centre, and had a proper conversation with him, showing him the fairy cakes he would be making with me.

And in September he did not know his letter sounds, now he does know them all, and is recognising some words. He gets his letter sounds out all by himself and practises them, and he has a little chalk board, he will try and write them whilst saying them on his board. I can't understand. He tries to count up to 20, still needs a bit of practise.

But standards are pitted so high now, a lot is expected of very young children now, and the current mainstream settings are very ridged and in flexible, so much so that SS are getting flooded as mainstreams cannot cope. But if they were more flexible, and offered different styles of teaching, coupled with alternate qualifications to GCSEs some youngsters with SN could possibly be fine in a MS school.

But if they were more flexible, and offered different styles of teaching, coupled with alternate qualifications to GCSEs some youngsters with SN could possibly be fine in a MS school.

As a teacher I wish we could; unfortunately alternative qualifications have been dropped by boards as they were no longer included on the performance table list of qualifications together the the change to GCSEs which have been forced onto us. Cuts in budgets (real term) has also had a huge effect i.e. lack of TAs that schools can't offer this no matter how much they want to.

It's like they have no clue cricket my ds is the same , he would be really vulnerable.
How can they justify a transport situation like that

They have justified it through him being capable of getting the number 8 bus and being able to show his bus pass. The vulnerability issue they have said that this is being taught at college therefore we will be paying for a taxi ourselves/his PIP funding

I know cricket your hands are tied, it has to be on a government/policy level. Teachers/HT have to follow the curriculum and style set by the powers that be, the same powers that introduced testing for 7 and 10 year olds.

cricket I bet the ridged education system as we have it now, really dishartens teachers, they cannot use their skills in the way they would like.

Oh I'm sorry Lazymazy . It's not that you can't help him progress at home. I just think you need to realise that what might sound like a small delay at the age of 5, is proportionally significant. This may be why you perceive it to be 'mild' LD and the school perceive 'mod/severe' LD.

I think SS will provide skill based learning. So, for example, with 1:1 support in PE time, a child may receive assistance to get changed so they can keep up with the rest of the class, becoming dependent on adult help for changing.

In a SS, independence in changing would be prioritised, to the extent that even if they only got 5-10 minutes in the hall as a result, the children would be encouraged to do as much as they could themselves.

A child could do that eh cricket. My ds could show a bus pass now at 5 , I could teach him.to recognise a bus with no. 8 on, but it's the rest of it, the trust in others, the understanding, being given able to make decisions if something out of the ordinary happens. All about the money isn't it 😐