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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To question the Eat Well plate?

306 replies

TheGruffaloMother · 10/01/2017 20:32

I know it can take an age to filter new evidence down into official advice but am really struggling to fathom why the Eat Well plate hasn't yet changed despite everything I keep seeing in the media suggesting we've known for a while now that eating such a high proportion of carbohydrate isn't necessarily healthy. Is high fat the way to go? High protein? Is the official advice wrong? Do the alternatives offer lasting ways to keep your weight under control?

OP posts:
Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 15:37

well if she is saying it's ok to be obese and have all the resultant health issues that's ok then Hmm. But it's ok for people to twist what I say.

I am defending the unjustified attack on some good healthcare advice which will suit most people and trying to clarify nonsense like all carbs are sugar and cause insulin spikes. No ....complex carbs, unrefined and unprocessed carbs DO NOT.

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 15:38

I've just had a look at the Eatwell plate. If I had to adjust it to how I eat it would look as follows:
Vegetables would be at least half the plate.
Fats and sugars would definitely not be lumped in together. Fats alone in that slice then, although it's a slightly artificial delineation as I get a lot of my fat from animal protein and dairy.
Sugars I probably wouldn't even include, they don't need to be eaten daily.
And then I'd reduce the carbohydrate slice commensurate to how much I've increased the vegetable slice.

HairsprayBabe · 11/01/2017 15:38

Ignore Olympia she is a right GF having never been overweight she doesn't understand the issues we are facing/have faced and is just rude and self serving.

It smacks of "look at me I have been perfect my whole life and you are lazy and stupid for letting yourself get fat"

Gee... thanks...

Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 15:41

Lost. You are saying the advice is outdated according to media reports. These do not constitute evidence based advice which is what the eatwell plate is. NICE guidelines use rigorous evidence based research to consteuct all their guidelines. I know I've been in contact with them in the past and they explained this to me.

What you are saying is incorrect and I am challenging it

qwerty232 · 11/01/2017 15:43

I think when potatoes or fruit are put on the naughty list it's got silly.

My personal rule is this: the less something has been messed about with or processed, the less likely it is to make you fat or ill. Cut out refined carbs and sugar basically. And limit alcohol.

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 15:43

Olympia when it comes to nutritional guidelines, there is no agreed rigorous evidence quite frankly.

HairsprayBabe · 11/01/2017 15:45

Qwerty We did mess about with spuds. We bred them over time to make them deliver more energy faster. White potatoes are not natural they never existed until we stuck our oar in.

LostMyDotBrain · 11/01/2017 15:45

Nobody has attacked the advice Olympia. They've questioned it. It's even in the thread title. And if you can quote anyone on this thread saying it's fine to be obese, I'll lop my leg right off. But you won't be able to. Because you're just fat-baiting. Makes you feel good about yourself. Well, bully for you, you're so disciplined to have never become fat and that obviously qualifies you to reduce the whole obesity issue to fat people just not being enough like you.

Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 15:45

I've not been perfect and it's just as hard for me to pass up the Krispy Kreme doughnut (I give in sometimes) and I'm not lecturing anyone. The reasons people gain weight are multiple and complex but the help is out there and it's up to everyone to make their own choices.

Just don't rubbish research that is useful for many people who want to make a healthy choice.

qwerty232 · 11/01/2017 15:46

I didn't know that Hairspray thank you. I guess I juts meant fruit and veg are cool, but ready meals and cakes less so.

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 15:46

True hairspray. In the US even the meat is not as nature intended. Thousands of years of domestication is one thing but cattle were not designed to eat vast quantities of corn.

Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 15:47

Toast. Email NICE and ask them what evidence they use for their eatwell guidelines. They are very helpful. You might even find it on there NICE guidelines and it is always heavily referenced.

I read it as an attack and regardless of the wording you are questioning on the basis of media reports Hmm

Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 15:55

I suggest u look at this and follow the references too
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-eatwell-plate-external-reference-group-review and oh look they reference the sugar issue too
www.gov.uk/government/publications/sugar-reduction-responding-to-the-challenge

I rest my case

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 15:57

Olympia I'very got a statistics background and a keen interest in human nutrition. I don't need to email NICE.
Scientific understanding of human nutrition is incomplete. It's very hard to design meaningful studies. Epidemiological studies have obvious flaws namely confounding variables and it's very hard to prove causation from correlation.
Animal studies again have the obvious flaw of not being humans.
Add to that selective data selection from scientists wanting to prove pet theories, the fact that many of these studies are sponsored by large food manufacturers, and these lobbies also put pressure on how politicians interpret the results when drafting policy, and you start to get an inkling of the issue.
Frankly the fat = bad theory was a public health disaster. The studies were flawed and inconclusive. They green lighted manufacturers to produce a whole new array of crap "food" and pass it off as healthy because it was low fat.
So if that's the NHS guideline still then yes it urgently needs to be updated.

HairsprayBabe · 11/01/2017 15:58

Calm it Olympia You aren't on trial.

The eatwell plate might be "perfect" if you are looking to maintain your weight, but if you are looking to lose weight then it probably isn't ideal.

Why do you even care if you aren't overweight your self? What impact does it have on your life if some overweight people feel like it isn't the best way to lose weight and have found another equally sustainable for them way?

LostMyDotBrain · 11/01/2017 15:59

Your attitude is what people are objecting to Olympia and as far as that's concerned, there's no case to be rested. It's just unpleasant for the sake of being unpleasant. Being a GF isn't negated by eventually providing a couple of links that could have contributed to discussion if you hadn't made your points the way you did.

Oblomov16 · 11/01/2017 16:00

I agree OP. It's so archaic, what IS a reasonable time to catch up? It's a disgrace.

Oblomov16 · 11/01/2017 16:02

What a waste of money though. How much longer are we going to give them, before they get their act together and 'get with the programme'?

KindDogsTail · 11/01/2017 16:04

Ok toast might not be the most nutritious food but it's not making people fat.

One piece of toast won't make you fat, but the fact you have not had enough nutrition in the morning may mean you are very hungry later. This in its turn may lead to a latte and a cupcake elevenses; a chocolate bar.

In the 1960s and 1970s most people had breakfast with some cereal and milk and sugar (in a small bowl), but often too an agg and bacon, or baked beans, or kipper. You would not be hungry for hours and were well nourished. As another poster said, people would have lunch with some meat, some potato and vegetables and time to eat it in without stress...who has that sort of nutrition for lunch now? An evening meal would be similar.

No one missed meals. Tea in the middle would keep people going with a warm drink and one or two biscuits (none of which compared to a 6inch wide cookie) or something like a small piece of sponge cake.

The balance and the quantity was different.

No one ate just bread, giant bowls of cereal, pasta, enormous pizzas on a regular basis, or foot long "french" bread sandwiches filled with sugar sauce and grease and with side order of chips. Cafe binge food did not exist. Coca cola or lemonade were an occasional treat - the giant binge bottles of fizzy sugar drinks and diet drinks (the diet stuff causes cravings) were not standard.

Meal deals are contributors to obesity. Binge packages in cinemas replacing small individual portions of sweets or popcorn have changed culture too. Those bumper bags are evil. "For sharing" is a euphemism.

Television advertisements show scenes like the one where people on the sofa are arbitrarily shovelling giant chunks of greasy roast potato into their mouths while watching the television mindlessly. These used to be a small treat that was part of a Sunday lunch or a holiday meal, with meat and other vegetables.

Lives were previously physically more active too as other posters have said.

Olympiathequeen · 11/01/2017 16:16

No wonder so many people are overweight when they refuse to recognise a very common sense approach to food which suits the majority of people. It would be so refreshing if people said I'm overweight because I eat to much and I've got to get help (loads out there) instead of denial and attacks on people who point out the obvious.

The eatwell guide isn't supposed to be a diet guide but a healthy diet guide. To lose weight you need other strategies and when you achieve weight loss then use the eatwell guide to maintain weight.

And it was updated last year from what I've seen.

Zarachristmas · 11/01/2017 16:22

Kinddogstall I did pretty much say all of that in my first post.

I just don't agree that the NHS should be recommending any low carb diet as standard.

I don't see the problem with having a chicken salad sandwich for lunch on brown bread. I don't see the problem with having some rice with your chilli or a pitta with your humous.

The NHS doesn't recommend anyone eat a large white baguette. They recommend whole grains.

If people prefer an omelette for breakfast because it fills them up then there's no problem.

The NHS website recommends all sorts of breakfasts including things like eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes and grilled bacon.

PetraDelphiki · 11/01/2017 16:23

Interested article in the times this week which pointed out that your body resists weight loss. So all the slim people who have never been overweight can eat more calories/do less exercise to stay at that weight than someone who has dieted down to that weight. Which Aldo explains why it is so hard to keep the weight off long term...you effectively have to keep dieting to stay still!

WhatALoadOfOldBollocks · 11/01/2017 16:24

The causes of obesity are complex and numerous. This intereactive diagram is fascinating!

RE cereal (eg cornflakes with semi-skimmed milk) for breakfast; it's not ideal. It's carb heavy with very little protein or fat, which means it's metabolised quickly in the body, which leads to people feeling tired and hungry within hours, causing a sugar craving leading to eating more carb-rich food. An ideal breakfast has a good portion of fat and/or protein as it slows the absorption of glucose, which keeps glucose and insulin levels more stable, and keeps us satiated longer. But we've been brainwashed by clever marketing to believe cornflakes/cherios/rice crispies are what we should eat at breakfast.

Zarachristmas · 11/01/2017 16:26

Of course it's hard to lose weight. It's hard to keep it off and it's hard for some people to stay slim.

NHS are the last to blame though imo.

Zarachristmas · 11/01/2017 16:29

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/Healthybreakfasts.aspx

Some examples of NHS suggested breakfasts. Not a cornflake or cheerio in sight.