AIBU to allow my children to speak my language?

[tyngedyriaith]

Have name changed to something fitting for this, I post once in a while

Just as a background...

I was brought up speaking Welsh and English at home with my grandparents having absolutely atrocious English and not learning it until their 20s.

I married a boarding school boy with a background very different from my own. He doesn't speak Welsh although clearly the family name has Welsh roots.

In my workplace we speak 100% Welsh and so naturally I still speak that more. I speak both to my children and English when husband is around. We live in an English speaking area although our small village being about 50:50 and so church is bilingual.

The children go to a welsh language school too.

DMIL.....

She resents that they speak Welsh and often comes out with comments like "oh only backward, uneducated poor people spoke Welsh when I was a child"
"It really does hold you back" - no it doesnt we have two medics at uni thanks...
Etc... it's not 1940 ffs

She always tries to prove that it's a waste of time, claims they don't speak it outside of school, frowns when she realises they speak it with their welsh speaking friends.

They pay for us all to go on a big family holiday and if they hear us speaking welsh we were once told to speak english when they are around. Ok fair enough if they are part of the conversation etc.
She makes comments when I'm around like " I find it very rude that you speak welsh around us"

BUT !!! Their cousins are bilingual Spanish and speak Spanish with their father (spanish) at the dinner table and she would NEVER dare say anything about that. I just feel like our language isn't viewed as real.

AIBU to tell them to stick up for themselves and be proud of having two first languages?!

God I want to smack that woman out sometimes...... as lovely as she is other times.....

What an ole witch she sounds!

Be proud of your Welsh heritage and language. The culture and history of any nation resides in its mother tongue. Your children's lives and intellects are richer for having a second language.

I think if she says anything again about being "rude" to speak Welsh in front of them (it is a bit, but depending on the ages of your children they may just get over-excited when telling you something, and forget), then I would mention your Spanish BIL - "Oh Okay - with you be raising this issue with Jorge and Belinda another Spanish-speaking children? if not shut up " and compromise by saying to your children "Will you repeat that in English, please? DGPs aren't as clever as you and only speak one language.

Re: only poor and ignorant people spoke Welsh when she was young - at that time only poor and ignorant women breast-fed their babies. We have now learned how important that can be - and it is the same with a second language - any language. But Welsh, and any language with comparatively few speakers, is a gateway to history and culture that could so easily be lost.

Tell her to get knotted.

Er the cousins live in spain and speak English at home...

How awful!! I do think there's a bit of fear when it comes to native languages other than English among some people with a 'Little Britain' mentality. I think it's terrific your children are speaking it, keeping it a living language. I'd love to know Gaelic - language of my ancestors - but it was list in our family due to similar stigmas.

The thought that not all of us come from Anglo- Germanic stock disturbs a certain type a great deal. I certainly don't - genetic testing proved I only have 2% Scandinavian blood - it would be much higher from someone with Norman ancestry. So I've often had questions about where I'm from even though my dark genotype is completely normal in countries like Wales, Ireland and even Scotland. We just avoided the Viking types

SnatchedPencil your comment was a - very rude, and b- had nothing to do with the actual question posed by OP.

OP's DC aren't learning welsh just for the sake of learning a second language - they are picking it up naturally because they are welsh, live in wales and have welsh speaking family. It would be hard for them to avoid speaking it. It is part of their identify, not an employable skill (although it might be that as well).

They can hardly practice their sodding Japanese in their everyday life, go to their nearby Japanest bilingual school, speakto their non-Japanese parent, or switching the TV straight on to Japanese programming can they?

Blonde bumshell - lots of welsh first language speakers don't express themselves as clearly in English, just as anybody else who knows more that one language sometimes gets muddled up. And yes they dream in Welsh!!!

Really at some of these comments.

I think TheMartians has it. In an environment where one language could easily be lost it's important to keep using it, even when others are present - because otherwise it might hardly be practiced at all. My kids are at an international school and I can see that it's easier for many and important for most of the parents to use another language with their kids, even when we are around. They don't intend offence, so I don't take any. If I were being deliberately excluded, I'd feel bad - but I really don't think that's what's happening. Native English speakers operating in a mostly English language environment need to relax a bit about this.

Also - not sure how being able to do something (anything) can hold you back . . .

. . . not being very bright, I thought it was the things you can't do that limits you . . .

(But what would I know?)

If the cousins are living in Spain and speak fluent English, then YANBU!!
im assuming he is English!

If she doesn't moan about the Spanish speaking kids but does about the Welsh ones then she is BU. You may want to suggest she brings a Welsh Not to the table with her .

Generally I would say it's rude to exclude someone who can't speak the language and I would encourage the dc to speak English in front of her, although if they are right at the other end of the table I'd say it doesn't matter so much. However her attitude is reminiscent of the Victorians and her comments are bloody rude.

There is sadly an attitude amongst some people that Welsh speakers must be talking about them (seriously? Why would they bother?) Or that the language isn't "useful". This is BS.

Incidentally Welsh was my DFs first language. Sadly I don't speak it but through family I have met people who are far more comfortable speaking it than English (and no they're not 70!)

She's being unreasonable and rude. I do think that it is rude to speak in a different language if only one other person in the room doesn't speak it and is being left out like a plum. Other than that there is absolutely no problem with, I think especially for people who live in a country with a different language to their own- it must be so nice to use their native tongue when they can.

Your MIL just sounds completely prejudiced and I'd be inclined to call her up on it every single time with a simple phrase like, "I find that rude" or something similar and use it and use it until she gets bored and finds something else to whinge about.

tyngedriath I find it interesting tbh. I am comparing it to the Irish language situation, and the comparison is interesting. I do encounter a bit of self-conscious, middle-class determination to revive the language. Just pockets of people.

I think because languages evolve if they're in the media and widely spoken then language moves with the people and moves with time and I find it hard to believe that Welsh could be as 'good' at English! Am I allowed to say that being Irish?? know Irish just doesn't really have words for things like wifi, modem, spreadsheet, also, expressing really complicated ideas and using vocab that people mightn't understand if they heard them in their own language, never mind a second, doesn't that effect the ongoing standard of the minority language? I don't know any Irish speakers who have vocab above and beyond what 'the average' person understands. If you start needed to use words like exponentially and extrapolate and exacerbate (just examples) do Welsh speakers have a translation, or do they use the welsh for increase at a greater rate, take from that, make worse etc etc etc

She moans when you speak it in another room? Tell her it's rude to eavesdrop!

And YY to this. I do think there's a bit of fear when it comes to native languages other than English

She is being so unreasonable. I would love it if I or my DC could speak another language.

Ps, doesn't she understand enough to know that they're not talking about her?

IMO, It sounds like you are both trying to score points of each other.

Blonde, you've got us bang to rights there. We have no 'difficult' Welsh words and the language hasn't evolved at all because really it's not a proper language at all is it? Just a little pretend language, an interesting project for the middle classes.

Fucking hell.

I would say it would hold them back not to speak Welsh or at least limit their options.

There are loads of public sector (and probably some private sector) jobs where you need to speak Welsh. Such as some judicial positions.

How lovely, being multilingual - I can't see why she'd think this would hold them back. The Cornish language died out, really impressed that the Welsh keep it up.

My dc are in a gaelscoil. Eldest is completely fluent. I have conversational Irish so can hold my own, can converse fully with younger ones.

Gaelscoils have statistically higher levels of English than their English speaking counterparts consistently. The same is true of maths, the sciences, other languages and pretty much everything!

Studies show that students who learn through the medium of Irish have a higher rate of third level education access.

Your point about certain words is a bit of a non-starter. As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of words that have no direct translation to English. So you adapt. That's not detrimental to anyone!

Basically, having a second language is never a bad thing.

And OP, if MIL has a problem with hearing the dc speak Welsh, that's tough shit really!

DH's family isn't from Ireland. If they're visiting when the dc are doing their homework, then tough! They'll hear them speak Irish because they are Irish speakers.

Welsh is a hugely rich language !

esbonyddol
allosod
gwaethygiad

I find the Welsh language is far more "down to earth" and doesn't need to always use alternate words. That's what I like about it too, we can speak as is needed without waffley fancy words although we do have the vocab if needed in formal works.

Of course Welsh isn't used in Wales ' to exclude' people, any more than German people use German in Germany to exclude people. I know lots of bilingual families and it is perfectly normal to overhear the parent speaking to their children in the non English language. It's not rude unless it's the general conversation being carried out in the other language.
Many people say that bilingual children ( no matter what language) have much more aptitude for learning additional languages so that is a benefit. And really, language is a beautiful thing, and Welsh is part of your heritage so I would say keep on speaking, just make sure you don't fall into conversation in front of mil.

longdilig Sorry, not trying to cause offence, I was wondering. An answer would have been welcome. Anyway, How do you say bang to rights in Welsh?

DC can often get stuck in the middle of a sentence as they can't find the perfect fit word they know in Welsh.

It's sad that DC have to have a posh english accent for when the visit her and then a welsh one at home.

Thanks tyne

" Of course Welsh isn't used in Wales ' to exclude' people, "

well that is debatable but here is probably not the right place to have that debate.

Madmags, I hear you but there is a certain kind of parent who sends their child to a gaelscoil and it's a parent who values education and encourages and supports their child and has an eye on third level achievement, so is it the gaelscoil or is it the parents' expectations? My dc1 is a Gaelgoir btw! She loves it more than Spanish. V frustrating for me. I'm not against Irish or Welsh, personally I would prefer another language with a wider audience.