AIBU to allow my children to speak my language?

[tyngedyriaith]

Have name changed to something fitting for this, I post once in a while

Just as a background...

I was brought up speaking Welsh and English at home with my grandparents having absolutely atrocious English and not learning it until their 20s.

I married a boarding school boy with a background very different from my own. He doesn't speak Welsh although clearly the family name has Welsh roots.

In my workplace we speak 100% Welsh and so naturally I still speak that more. I speak both to my children and English when husband is around. We live in an English speaking area although our small village being about 50:50 and so church is bilingual.

The children go to a welsh language school too.

DMIL.....

She resents that they speak Welsh and often comes out with comments like "oh only backward, uneducated poor people spoke Welsh when I was a child"
"It really does hold you back" - no it doesnt we have two medics at uni thanks...
Etc... it's not 1940 ffs

She always tries to prove that it's a waste of time, claims they don't speak it outside of school, frowns when she realises they speak it with their welsh speaking friends.

They pay for us all to go on a big family holiday and if they hear us speaking welsh we were once told to speak english when they are around. Ok fair enough if they are part of the conversation etc.
She makes comments when I'm around like " I find it very rude that you speak welsh around us"

BUT !!! Their cousins are bilingual Spanish and speak Spanish with their father (spanish) at the dinner table and she would NEVER dare say anything about that. I just feel like our language isn't viewed as real.

AIBU to tell them to stick up for themselves and be proud of having two first languages?!

God I want to smack that woman out sometimes...... as lovely as she is other times.....

Ah. Lovely to see the old 'used to exclude' bollocks being trotted out. Of course, the Welsh language only exists to be used against the English, it has no merit in it's own right.

Op, I'd get your dh to have a word, her attitude is offensive and she needs to be told that. How fucking dare she make her grand children feel uncomfortable speaking one of their own languages.

YANBU

Welsh is my first language, I don't think my parents ever taught me English, it just got picked up from the media and surroundings.

I'm always saddened to see the old stereotype that people who's first language isn't English are only speaking their first language to 'exclude' or 'be rude'. It really isn't true, and if anyone actually did this, they'd be a knob whatever language they were speaking!

I struggle to speak English to babies, children and pets - something to do with Welsh being my first language I suppose. But I'd always translate into English for the benefit of any non-Welsh speakers who may be present.

Some grandparents could see your situation as a valuable opportunity to learn some Welsh with their grandchildren - picking it up gradually in the way little children do.

" This is complete rubbish! "

not where I live it isn't.

I take it the MIL's Welsh, or Welsh-born, Welsh... roots? So she's got this chip about Welsh being some kind of backward language and not a real one.

That's a huge shame, and pretty damaging words to be around. All languages are beautiful and should be cherished, as so many are at risk of being lost. Not encouraging a language (assuming the majority language is also learned, so no one's being deliberately held back) seems really strange to me, in itself a backward thinking, like not encouraging reading or writing.

I guess perhaps it's up to your DH to stand up for the Welsh language :) "Well, we think it's an amazing gift for the children to speak it" and "We're so delighted at how well they've picked it up", and basically talk over her, any comment she comes out with offer one of your cheery quips, "Oh it's so nice they attend a Welsh school" and "It's so enriching to be bilingual, isn't it Cousins?" Hopefully she'll get the message her backward views aren't welcome and she can keep them to herself.

Some views just aren't worth tolerating. If she were having periodic rants about your children being mixed race or disabled, she'd be shut down pronto - think what you like, lady, but keep your gob shut and your manner courteous.

I agree it's rude if you're chatting away in any language and excluding someone, but I don't get that impression from your post. If she's making rude comments about it being a 'backward' language...

"I'm far from being an exception, there are a very small number of 'nice' jobs only available to Welsh speakers. Even the government employs English only speakers".

Is there pressure to have passed (and done well at ) Welsh at A level?

YABU, they'd be better off learning a more widely-used language. Welsh won't get them very far outside of Wales. It's not that it's a problem to learn it, it's just not that useful outside of the country as another language might be. Chinese, Japanese, Polish even, many languages would reward them better in the future.

There are all sorts of benefits from being bilingual, for instance, medicalxpress.com/news/2017-01-bilingualism-brain-resources-age.html and another study found that in its subjects Alzheimers was delayed four years on average among those who were bilingual.

Your MIL is clearly a bigot. However, I do think it is rude to sit with people and speak another language if you all have a common one. If it is just that she is overhearing it... e.g. you are talking with your child in the bedroom as she walks past then she is being completely unreasonable.

If your BIL speaks English with any sort of competence then she is a hypocrite too and I'd expect your DH to say something (he should anyway).

Lastly, "Free" holidays are never really free, they always come with strings.

I can find you a ton of people blonde. Yes, most people who are first language Welsh also speak English but I know loads who would scrabble to find the right word in English or who apologise when speaking it because they don't feel comfortable.

Yes I do agree that it is rude to speak a lamguage others can't understand to exclude them, but that's exactly what BIL does. Although I speak spanish ok a bit

I didn't mean on purpose but as if I was chattering away whe it's just us and she walks in without me noticing. Or if she heard us through a wall in my bedroom just chatting etc.

blondebumshell

Uh oh, it seems to me as if you are suggesting that. FYI he lived here for 15 years and his English is PERFECT.

Bit of bollocks that I'm afraid, I know many many people who's English is far worse than their English. Yes I dream in Welsh. Yes if I dropped a glass or stubbed my toe or the children were about to run near a road.. yes I would speak Welsh. I think you're trying to say Welsh is only half a language as we speak English too? I hope I've misunderstood your points.

Worse than their welsh* !!

yes but snatched it is the language of their homeland and parents/grandparents...why would/should they not learn it?

Besides they might go to Patagonia one day.

oh and from now on IIWY I'd have an agreement that the very next time a rude comment is made about welsh being spoken that the visit is immediately over.

I find it very rude that you speak welsh around us

I think this is the root of your problem, MIL feels she would be excluded and gossiped about, and perhaps she's right.

Even so, being bilingual/multilingual is a great gift and not for anyone to deny future generations. Carry on, OP.

It's great they're being brought up bilingual. They'll find it easier to learn other languages as well.
I thought the thinking was 'one parent one language' is the best rule.
I don't think it's rude to speak Welsh in front of MIL. But you could translate a bit into English to include her. She might even learn some Welsh ( although she doesn't sound that inclined!)

When your BIL speaks in Spanish I'd just say to your MIL "Just checking but are you happy for us to speak our native languages on this holiday or is it just English?"

Or just start speaking Welsh to your DC when he's speaking Spanish and see what she says.

That's such a nonsense argument snatched. The op's children can learn all those languages too, and being bilingual already will find them easier to pick up than a monoglot. My dd is in a Welsh medium secondary school and is learning mandarin as well as French. It is never a waste of time to learn a second language, especially when it's the language of your home country.

Parent raising children who are bilingual here.

The same rule applies to Welsh than to any other language.
So, for me, it depends on the age of the children and wether you are using the OPOL method.
If they are young and you are using the OPOL method, then speaking in Welsh to you dcs is fair enough.
If they are older, and you speak in English with them some of the time, then why on earth wouldn't you speak English when you are all together with your MIL?? I mean, speaking Welsh would be excluding her and I would feel that you are doing that on purpose TBH.

Re the other children who are bilingual, again it depends on whether the parents are fluent in English or not and whether they are using the OPOL system or not.

For us, when the dcs were little and until they were about 10~11yo, I've always spoken to them in my language. All the time, never in English. I've done that incl at my PIL who do not speak my language. (I did a lot of translating though) However, since I have been sure that their second language is secure, I'm more relaxed and would now speaks English with them at the table so that both grand parents can be involved too.
When we are in my home country, the dcs all speak that language and not English, even with each other, again out of respect for people around them.
Worth noting too that my dcs are in a different situation that yours in that they do not have the regular input in my language so it means I need to be much stricter re them speaking my language (theybwouod have stopped speaking it a long time ago otherwise).

All in all, I think YABU not to use English when together at the table.

SnatchedPencil I won't go into details, as I don't really want to totally out myself but I wouldn't have the successful career I've got without the Welsh language. It may not be "that useful" outside Wales (excluding Patagonia) but it's very handy from my livelihood's point of view.

Of course YANBU. Children from bilingual homes are not at any disadvantage.

I don't know much about welsh but I do know about Gaelic and I think the situation was very similar.
There was a generation (probably your MILs) that grew up with very deep seated prejudices about English being the "better" language and the only language to show you are educated.
This generation's parents had their mother tongue literally beaten out of them

I would actually feel pity for your mil rather than being offended / annoyed. If she makes offensive comments I would reply that it's so sad that her generation were brainwashed in that way and that your happy those attitudes have had their day.

She is a ridiculous fuckwit and I would only speak Welsh to her, if she can't be graceful and compromise then why should you, l would have thought she would be proud of her grandchildren having a second language, stupid snobby old bitch, tell her to fuck off in Welsh.

Xpost with your OP

I believe your BIL is in a very different situation than you because your dcs have constant input in both language whereas his DC only have input in Spanish from him.
This is a MAJOR difference because he will have to work very hard to keep both languages alive whereas you just have to go with the flow.

This is the reason why I used the OPOL method with my dcs. If I had been speaking English with them when we are with English only speakers, they would hardly have heard my language.
The biggest thing that will help a child to be bilingual is how much contact they have with that language.

Your dcs have a 50/50 access to both languages so don't need any particular effort.
The other child will have maybe 10~20% of their time in English if that (and that is your BIL is very involved) Spanish will be spoken for a couple of hours at bedtime and during the weekends (and not all the time as I expect your SIL will be speaking English). Not the same thing at all and not comparable.

Your MIL is an idiot who is embarrassed of her Welsh roots

My daughter (9) is fluent in Welsh, I can't speak or understand Welsh (well a little bit) and I love it when she speaks Welsh.

I'm so proud she's learnt it and that she goes to a Welsh speaking school.

I understand what your saying though, my ex FIL thinks it's ok to ridicule our language. If he visits Wales he tries to pronounce road signs and then says it's a ridiculous language!

If he met someone who spoke French he wouldn't dare make fun of them.

You carry on speaking Welsh, ignore the haters!

Wow your MIL is being totally unreasonable to complain about you speaking Welsh IN A DIFFERENT ROOM