To be annoyed with parents allowing their "just walking " toddlers to wander aimlessly

[Ab1000]

When I'm on my lunch break I'm always in a rush to get stuff done. It's so annoying when parents allow their kids to toddle around and get in everyone's way. I have two children so I do know what it's like but mine were either on reins or had a hand firmly held.

"entitled bitches"??

Nice.

I don't expect children to be silent in restaurants or cafes - there is a normal level of noise, and I accept that. But letting a child scream for ages, and doing nothing about it, is way above the normal level of noise, and I don't think it is 'entitled' not to want to have to listen to that whilst I try to enjoy my meal/coffee.

I also think that the acceptable noise levels vary, depending on where you are. If I'm in McDonalds or Pizza Hut, I expect and tolerate a much higher level of noise (from everyone, not just the children than I would if I were having afternoon tea at Claridges. Mind you, even in McDonalds letting a child scream for ages without trying to comfort/divert them is a bit antisocial.

Totally agree with your last post Halfway. They forget that others pay for their meals too. Also unless there's a sign saying no children allowed why should a parent with their child not go in to have a bite?

Time and a place as others have said

We were in a busy restaurant the other day and the table next to us had a group of I presume friends with their dc one of them was toddlin around now I know it's hard to keep a toddler occupied we've all been there but it was more the fact the mum was just cooing at aww look at him exploring etc etc as he nearly legged the waitress up 3 times carrying plates of hot food and drinks and wandered up to others peoples tables time after time while they were eating .

Mumzypops
Ooh you'd hate me then because I allow all the children to walk independently once walking is mastered and shock horror without reins currently have 1 who is just toddling and 2 just turned 3 who walk together holding so 9/10 walk lovely but sometimes we get the odd meltdown. Whilst I risk assess each time before going out I do have to think about the general public too, now if I put both 3 year olds on reins and had toddler in the buggy then the whole pavement would be taken up by us so I opt for them to walk freely as it is actually safer for the children and the general public.

Time and a place sure. But a doctor's waiting room ? Surely that's a safe place, one with toys laid out for young children. I find the idea that toddlers should be confined to buggys really sad.

• meant to say holding hands.

As many pps have said, it's not the toddlers who are the issue - it's the parents.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been stood completely stationary either in a queue, waiting for someone, or browsing a shelf in a shop and a toddler has careered into my legs. It's fine, that's what toddlers do and it isn't the issue and often if the parents see, they will laugh and apologise and I'll laugh too and say it's fine. What is the issue is when the parents tut, huff or shoot me a fouler of a look as if it's my fault!

The fact is, if you are happy to let your children roam free, you need to accept and understand that if something happens to them - whether it's something as minor as toddling into someone's legs, or if they get a hot coffee dropped on their head for charging straight into a waitress or bolt in front of a car - it is your fault, and not anybody elses. Yes people will always try to stop harm coming to a child if they can help it, either by dodging them, slamming on the brakes or trying to catch rogue cups of coffee from smashing them in the head. But unfortunately human beings do not have the reflexes of a cat, and sometimes are unable to stop these things from happening. If you don't want to risk any of these dangerous things happening to your child, then keep a hold of them - in whichever way you prefer, be it reigns, a buggy, hand hold, or a backpack. But don't go around kicking off at members of the general public who going about their days minding their own business and are in no way responsible for the safety of your child when accidents befall them and you weren't properly watching them. The only person who is to blame in that situation is you.

BaDumShh
I said on an earlier post my child always holds onto the pram for safety. I know where he is. But going back to op my child would have been slowing her down as it's a narrow pathway we walk along on the school run. So do I let my child 'roam free' and possibly run into danger/bump into somebody? Or do I continue to let my child hold onto the pram and she moans that she's running late due to being stuck behind us. He's four so no I won't shove him in a pram to get him out of the way. He's responsible enough to hold the pram so no I won't put him on reins. He either pissed someone off by being in the way or pissed someone off because he's roaming free!

If he's sensible, and the path is narrow - would it be safe for him to walk just behind you until you get to the end of that path?

Tbh, I think it is about awareness. If you (general 'you', not specifically you, @HalfwayToFifty) are on a narrow pathway, where others can't easily overtake you, then don't allow your toddler to take up the whole path, dawdling and stopping to examine every leaf, whilst you coo at their cleverness, unaware of the restive crowd building up behind you - go through as briskly as you can with the toddler. Dawdle where you aren't stopping other people getting where they are going.

And if you are behind someone with a toddler, and can't get past them, but they are walking as briskly as the toddler can manage, don't tut at them!

I'd like to think I am patient and wait for the person in front. No he can't walk behind because I can't see he is safe if he is behind me. He's very sensible. I'm aware of people around me but can only go at his pace, his legs are only short (mine aren't much longer). A lot of people walk on the road past us. I always say thankyou. I must just live somewhere with nice people ad I have never heard anyone complain about toddlers being in the way

Badumshh. If you refer back to my op I actually said wandering aimlessly. Your child holding onto the pram is not in that category. Read the op before you take aim. I'm not complaining about toddlers who are under control !!!!!!

Ab1000 was that comment supposed to be aimed at me?! confused

Oops badumshh. Sorry no it was meant for halfwaytofifty. Sorry for the confusion

Bit hypocritical of me badumshh not reading your post and then criticising others for not doing the same !!!!!

@HalfwayToFifty I think the issue is whether it is full on meltdown versus short burst of communicative or irritated crying.

When my son was under four, I tended to go places I was known (in a small town) where, I could (if I had to take my son out), say to staff "I am just going out to see if I can settle him, I'll be back" (and leave everything but handbag and child-buggy), or even where staff or other patrons would say "put him in his pram and I'll walk him up and down to see if I can get him off to sleep" (this was either the local arts centre Friday lunchtime concert -free acoustic music, where we went every week, and where there was others listening to consider, or the university visitor centre/botanic gardens cafe). To have such willing "grannies" and "aunties" was a boon, but equally if it was a five minute grizzling I waited it out. TBH for many years playing CDs bought at these free concerts was a rare successful tactic to get my son to sleep...
On Saturdays there was an play area/free roaming/face painting area clearly defined. On Fridays it was sit in the high chair or at the table, or chose a corner table, and put some toys down.
For all his other issues my son can and could always sit through live music, sometimes with better behaviour than other audience members (he knows if nothing else you only leave/enter between sets, or if you must, between songs).
It is maybe about assessing the venue and what is appropriate....there were (in the small city) other mumsy venues, at least during a weekday daytime... And venues that were smart and businessy where I would not have taken my son, or any other child.

@StillwishIhadabs

"But a doctor's waiting room ? Surely that's a safe place, one with toys laid out for young children. I find the idea that toddlers should be confined to buggys really sad."

Playing in a play area - fine (if you are happy that the toys are cleaned regularly) or playing in a corner with toys you have brough, fine.

Meandering around the place noisily or wildly careening and disprupting people who are unwell, or in pain or potentially tripping up the elderly less so... it is about supervision and control.

But he's still dawdling and in your way so is that not annoying to you if your in a rush?He probably has wondered aimlessly when he was younger and got in people's way in a supermarket but I can't avoid shopping. And I'm not going to work my schedule around people who maybe on their dinner hour ect. I would never, however, let him wander in restaurants or cafes. I know the danger and I know what he can be like left to his own devices. In a supermarket, yes I let him walk ahead (in sight). I'm lucky my Ds may be a pain at home but he's great when he's out. Chances are Dd won't be the same and I may have a runner or wanderer, and I'm prepared for that. I only live in a small town but I've been to big city's plenty of times when adults barge into each other. Sometimes the adults are just as bad. They never apologise. Where possible I try to let people pass.
I like to think I'm quite tolerant of other people who have children, I know not everyone is probably as cautious as me (I suffer from anxiety and irrational thoughts and always thinking of the worst thing that can happen in every situation) so if my child is out of my range of sight for a second I panic. Not everyone's like that and I understand, I wish I could be more relaxed.

@Treaclex Perhaps roaming more freely or harnessed up in reins or a pushchair is something that should be dependent on time of day and specific location.

If I were on my own, as an adult, I would rather try to negotiate 3 abreast on the pavement if it was dark (I live in the North of Scotland - it is getting dark by 3.15 and does not start getting light till after 8.30 at this time of year) or if it was on a busy road under any light. A pavement low-traffic, 20 mile per hour cobbled road with no side roads in full sunshine at 10 am...sure, let them roam.

mamabeak luckily for me I haven't experienced full on meltdowns out of the house. I'm sure sometimes by the time we are rugged up ready to go out we could have settled the child. But I wouldn't go for a family meal somewhere that wasn't family friendly, where I would expect people to be tolerant of an upset child. It never bothers me if I hear an upset child.

@Mumzypops I think even here it is a case of it might depend...

on if the mother has no option but to traverse a station at rush hour (having perhaps left the start point after lunch but need to change platforms/stations before arriving at destination at 8 pm, as the only or cheapest travel option);
and/or if there is a lift;
and/or if the mother is carrying luggage including a backpack which affects her gravity or perhaps a carseat;
and/or if she is pregnant or herself has balance issues or other health issues;
and/or if she perhaps has another child in a carrier/pushchair;
or if there were some other reason she could not for example take the child upstairs IN his buggy (as in too heavy/steep stairs).

Of course in the distant days of my early childhood (the late 60s) not only would there be porters and other station staff to help encumbered passengers, but other passengers did offer help and were trusted in their motives (I have offered to help mums fold buggies/hold child while they do so, carry luggage/buggy/babyseat while they manage [another] child and had anything from polite refusal to blanking me to rude to (twice) a downright verging on "I am thisclose to phoning the police" response that would suggest they think I am a pervert, though those these people seemed southern big city incomers to our small city or were in eg Edinburgh).

To amble just as practise...no...

@mamabeak
Today youngest was in buggy (1yr)
2x 3yr olds holding hands in front for preschool run so 8.45am and 12pm we have 4 roads to negotiate and a brook. During these times the pathways can get busy with other pedestrians although it's a quiet village area we walk through it has its dangers but with risk assessing it is possible to allow the 2x 3yr olds the independence to walk in front, they follow my instructions, maybe I'm lucky I don't know but independent walking can be done at busier times and with courtesy towards others.

@BaDumSsh
Absolutely the parents' responsibility and one hopes the parent will have the greatest interest in keeping their child safe.

However (and this may be age on my part or being a teacher) I also expect community to be engaged in keeping every citizen safe, from offering to carry an tottering old lady's shopping even if it takes me a little out of the way to being able to expect someone to say and having myself the responsibility to say to the ten year old throwing snowballs at traffic from the suspect branches of a rotting tree..." get down from that tree now - those branches will not hold your weight and you could cause an accident throughing snowballs at a car", or similar.

I do not expect another mother to scream at me "it's my child, don't you dare speak to him. It's up to me if he wants to hurt himself or not", when I say to her darling playing with the heavily sprung doors in a changing room, "watch your hands/face, sweetie, that door is going to hurt you."

Nor do I really expect in a family friendly social gathering (Church "bring your children too" party), in a closed room, for a adult faced with a two and a half year old approaching at a clumsy toddler run closed door, to open the safety-catch door FOR NO ONE OTHER THAN THE CHILD and let them out to a straight run (the outer doors were open) to the car park and the dual carriage way beyond that.. (luckily I was watching as was another parent, quicker than I, who caught my son).

I appreciate the middle-aged man who did this was not a dad and was trying to be courteous (no common sense).

So yes, the parent has the responsibility ultimately but so do we all towards every other person in our community.

@Treaclex I think you are possibly the parent of a different model of child to that which I had myself. Though having (briefly) taught in a nursery, where for outdoor expeditions the ratio is or was 5:1 adult for under 5s it is a matter of risk assessments.
I might have been trying to say, I would rather be inconvenienced by a flank of toddlers linked hand in hand/crocodile than the risk of their running into a road. The local nurseries here are often out and about (now live in small town near the beach) and three abreast/triple buggies, and no one thinks anything but "How lovely! They're off to the park/beach" and stands aside/make dogs sit, but the nurseries, too, "stand to the wall" to let others by; give and take.

Totally agree @mamabeak
I have a god awful triple and the shock is when I have to use it I have to walk in the road due to the way people park / leave their bins strewn all over the place. I have special flashing torches to illuminate us but you are so right it is give and take.