To be furious with workmen?

[Moocherbot]

My mother (mid 70s) had workmen in from Carpetright laying vinyl. 3 of them turned up. They told her they had run out of silicon and made her go out to a DIY shop to buy more, leaving them alone in the house.
She has told me this now and is clearly feeling guilty that she didn't put a stop to it at the time, so she's backtracking and telling me maybe this is normal.
Normal to get an elderly woman to go out to buy supplies (which she knows nothing about) that you ought to have brought, when there are 3 of you, and leaving you alone in her house?
I think it's outrageous, I want to complain about it, but she doesn't want to. I really want her to understand that you can say no to people or make an excuse but it's so hard to get through to her.
Any tips or advice please?

My Mum was neither naive nor gullible. Nor am I being ageist or sexist. You seem to want to pick an argument with some of us here, when all we're trying to do is support the OP.

Of course not all women of a certain age are naive to potential scams by tradespeople. Neither would I say my mum was gullible. I think it comes down to life experience. I'm not generalising here but trying to offer a reason behind Op's own mother's conduct in this situation.

You don't know anything about the OPs mother life experience though and you don't know anything else about her. You can't assume that you do just because she is the same age as you mother. That is practically the definition of ageism.

apologise if you thought I was being sexist or ageist but I still maintain that 40 years ago it was fairly commonplace for the man of the house to sort out home improvements and the wife to be in charge of housework and childcare.

It was common not to be involved with home improvements and still is. However, ou don't have to know about home improvement to know that it is not a good idea to leave three strangers in the house while you pop out to a shop so I'm not sure of the relevance.

My Mum was neither naive nor gullible. Nor am I being ageist or sexist.

You are being very ageist. If you don't think so, look it up.

Ok perhaps some of my comments were a bit ageist. I don't know the OP's mother so it's all speculation.
It would undoubtedly be quite intimidating to have three workmen demanding you pop to a local shop to pick up materials and perhaps a decision was made in haste.

It seems likely that in hindsight OP's mother considered it to be a bit off key as she recounted the tale to her daughter.

Perhaps convince your Mum to report it by saying they may be making this a habit with other customers and it needs stopping. This is so shady I don't even know where to begin to think of what they were up to home alone.

Ok. She's not exactly naive but she is exceptionally susceptible to pressure from people she thinks must know better than her. This is not due to age or gender other than that women of a certain generation are frequently in her position of having had these responsibilities dealt with by a spouse. It's also partly a personality thing. She's had trouble with scams before so I'm not assuming a vulnerability due to age, it's a fact (as is the fact she went along with it). So everyone's pretty much agreed that workman putting someone - anyone- in a position where they don't feel they can refuse to go out on their behalf - leaving their home unattended - is wrong. Does it make it more wrong if they are an older woman? I think it does: because they should be aware that that is a potentially vulnerable class of person, who may be less well equipped to both resist their pressure and to do the task. And FFS because what kind of lazy sods send an old lady out to get their equipment?!
I'm not going to complain if she really doesn't want me to. But we are going to have a conversation about how it is not on.

I think you should complain. Not just for your mum but for all the other mums and grannys out there!

I definitely think you should notify carpet right.

They would really want to know that the fitters they use have acted so unprofessionally (these fitters are usually subcontractors who are self employed and only contracted out to do the fitting) I'm guessing they would not want to use them again.

Please notify them, not because you want to complain or gain anything from them, purely because you want to stop this from happening again. You are definitely not being unreasonable, this was unacceptable.

Ok. She's not exactly naive but she is exceptionally susceptible to pressure from people she thinks must know better than her. This is not due to age or gender other than that women of a certain generation are frequently in her position of having had these responsibilities dealt with by a spouse.

Whether or not women actually did any decorating, they were certainly often the ones who were at home when workman visited, particularly if they didn't go out to work. Regardless, whether or not someone has dealt with workman in the past has little to do with whether they have the common sense not to leave three strangers in the house while they pop to the shops. That has more to do with common sense and it is very ageist and sexist to suggest that women in their 70s have less common sense and are more susceptible to pressure than men of the same age or younger people.

It's also partly a personality thing. She's had trouble with scams before so I'm not assuming a vulnerability due to age, it's a fact (as is the fact she went along with it).

If she did this kind of thing when younger, then why mention her age in the first place? Many of your posts have implied this situation has occurred because of her age and other posters have certainly assumed that.

And FFS because what kind of lazy sods send an old lady out to get their equipment?!

Why would they send anyone out to get the equipment? I'm sure it would be far quicker to get it themselves so why would they waste the time and effectively their money (they would be self employed, not employees of carpet right). The whole scenario is odd.

The whole attitude that OP should complain on the mother's behalf, whether she like it or not, as if she is a child is so patronising and infantilising. Would you like someone to interfere with your life like that?

Marynary. You have accused me of being ageist and sexist. I am nigh on 60 years old - yes, that's right, I am nigh on 60 years old. I suspect I'm older than you are. Not that that's relevant.

My mother, if she'd still be alive, would be in her early 90s. The story of her life - and our lives - might astound you and make you take a step back. She was not a pathetic little housewife, relying on her husband to deal with any 'home' related things. In fact she was extremely practical - even when my father was alive.

You seem to be determined to miss the point that many of us would be (or are) concerned about situations such as this. Nobody is trying to patronise or infantilise their parent/s - just worry about a 'wrong' scenario where a bit of help wouldn't go amiss, assuming the parent is happy for that help.

Frankly, I fear for your own mother when she comes to need more help from you. Because clearly you feel that she doesn't - and will never need it. But she might at some point?

Older people are more vulnerable and frequently targeted for scams. They often live alone and don't have the quick reactions or strength of someone younger.
I don't think the OP has done anything wrong by showing concern for her mother.

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions for handling a situation like this, Mary?

Regardless of the age, gender, marital status, life experience or streetwiseness of the @Moocherbot's mum, it was very odd for the workmen to send her out to buy the silicon, leaving them u supervised in her home. Surely this is the central issue?

I firmly believe this needs to be reported to Carpetright and the police - and if the OP's mum does not want to do this, I think the OP should still report it - not to 'infantilise' her mum, but to try to stop these workmen doing this to someone else.

I can think of no legitimate reason why workmen would do this - the only reasons I can think of are dodgy at best - casing the house for valuables, for a letter robbery, stealing stuff there and then, looking for keys so they can come back for some nefarious purpose.

Maybe they didn't find anything worth stealing at the OP's mum's house - I assume she has checked carefully to make sure there are no valuables or keys missing - but I would still report it and change the locks.

Does that infantilise the OP's mum? Maybe it does. But if she won't report it, then the OP must, in case another person gets robbed or worse by these men.

Doing nothing is not an option, surely?

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties nothing wrong at all with showing concern for another, but it is wrong to make decisions for them which many have suggesyed the OP do. This disempowers people and should not be condoned if a person has the ability to make her own decisions.

I think you should complain because you might find you need a paper trail if something does go missing or has been stolen (e.g. A key)

Absolutely, SDTG. I agree with everything you say - and this is what this thread is about.

Marynary. You have accused me of being ageist and sexist. I am nigh on 60 years old - yes, that's right, I am nigh on 60 years old. I suspect I'm older than you are. Not that that's relevant.

What does your age have to do with it? You can be ageist at any age. Interesting that you are not far off the OP’s mothers age though. Presumably you won’t mind if people patronise you and start treating you like a child in a few years time when you hit your 70th birthday.

My mother, if she'd still be alive, would be in her early 90s. The story of her life - and our lives - might astound you and make you take a step back. She was not a pathetic little housewife, relying on her husband to deal with any 'home' related things. In fact she was extremely practical - even when my father was alive.

What is your point? You are the one suggesting that people in their 70s are naïve and gullible and shouldn’t be allowed to make their own decisions, not me.

Frankly, I fear for your own mother when she comes to need more help from you. Because clearly you feel that she doesn't - and will never need it. But she might at some point?

That is a ridiculous comment. Of course I would help my mother if she needed help e.g. if she was confused with dementia or frail for any other reason. She certainly doesn’t need my help or interference just because she is in her mid 70s though.

That's true, Suchafuss.

"You are the one suggesting that people in their 70s are naïve and gullible and shouldn’t be allowed to make their own decisions, not me."

When did I say that?

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions for handling a situation like this, Mary?

I would check that nothing had gone missing. If nothing had been stolen and my mother really didn't want to report it then I certainly wouldn't override her decision because she is a competent adult. I would be outraged interfered with my business in this way, wouldn't you?

FruJustFru In response to the poster who said the decision to report it should be the mothers you said:

"Don't be ridiculous, suchafuss, the OP's mother is in her mid 70s and possibly trusting and possibly unaware of such scams - or other unpleasantness. "

On that quote I said "possibly trusting" and "possibly unaware".

That is using the word possibly twice.

Possibly means maybe or perhaps.

At no point did I say actually or definitely. Or that everyone within that age range is incapable.

This is all derailing the thread though, isn't it? The question is whether the OP, or her mum, should speak to CR about the issue with her being sent out to buy adhesive.

You are clutching at straws now FruJustFru The sentence implied because she was in her 70s there was a good chance she was too trusting and unaware of scams.

I'm not clutching at anything.

Did you read this update from the OP?

Moocherbot Tue 10-Jan-17 15:39:56
Ok. She's not exactly naive but she is exceptionally susceptible to pressure from people she thinks must know better than her. This is not due to age or gender other than that women of a certain generation are frequently in her position of having had these responsibilities dealt with by a spouse. It's also partly a personality thing. She's had trouble with scams before so I'm not assuming a vulnerability due to age, it's a fact (as is the fact she went along with it). So everyone's pretty much agreed that workman putting someone - anyone- in a position where they don't feel they can refuse to go out on their behalf - leaving their home unattended - is wrong. Does it make it more wrong if they are an older woman? I think it does: because they should be aware that that is a potentially vulnerable class of person, who may be less well equipped to both resist their pressure and to do the task. And FFS because what kind of lazy sods send an old lady out to get their equipment?!
I'm not going to complain if she really doesn't want me to. But we are going to have a conversation about how it is not on.

I'll be 70 soon. I'm astonished how often people here talk about 'women of that generation' as if we were some sort of snowflakes. My grandma was born in Victoria's reign and she wasn't any kind of snowflake either.

For what it's worth, I do think this thing with OP's mother is a police matter - this team of carpet fitters sounds quite practised at getting the house to themselves. Best way is what PPs have suggested - she needs to do it for the sake of other customers.