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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not pay the fine?

53 replies

PopcornFiend · 05/01/2017 13:00

Asking for a friend (honestly! Not me)
She was parked in a car park and dropped a cig end out her window. Was approached by a guy from the council and issued a fixed penalty notice for littering - £75 I think.
She is considering not paying & running the risk of prosecution/going to court. I'm not sure if this is wise but then I'm very much a rule-follower and err on side of caution.
What do people think, is she likely to get away with ignoring the fine? She thinks will be fine & they won't bother to chase.

OP posts:

specialsubject · 05/01/2017 13:46

dirty cow. Pay up.

very few things go away if ignored.

Quintessing · 05/01/2017 13:46

Why does she thinks the fine is optional?

I would like you to tell her to follow her convictions, I would like to see more people like her prosecuted.

harderandharder2breathe · 05/01/2017 13:48

Of course she should pay

She's a dirty cow in the first place for littering and now she thinks she shouldn't pay a legitimate fine? Twat.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 05/01/2017 13:52

She needs to suck it up, pay and stop littering the streets with her crap.

GilMartin · 05/01/2017 13:52

She isn't the victim of an unjust system or wrongfully fined, she isn't Nelson Mandela or the Birmingham Six.

Fag Ash Lil needs to pay up and shut up. Oh and take it as a salutary lesson not to wang litter all over the streets.

Birdsgottafly · 05/01/2017 13:54

My DD has been fined twice, she now doesn't litter.

I'm glad that the fining has come into force.

Why doesn't she think the rules/laws/common decency doesn't apply to her?

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 05/01/2017 13:56

I believe that if you don't pay at once the fine is increased. In Scotland the fine for littering is £80 but if it goes to court it can be up to £2,500. Also, if the council has to chase for payment, they will scrutinise the rest of her record and see whether she has anything else outstanding - unpaid council tax or rent arrears or parking fines etc - and bundle it all together into one action.

Tell her to pay the bloody fine and not be so silly. She is the reason why fixed penalty notices exist.

Oliversmumsarmy · 05/01/2017 13:59

If she is incapable of getting rid of her fag ends then maybe she should consider giving up smoking.

I shout dirty bastard at people I see littering it gives me the rage.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a monetary fine I would have litter louts sweeping the streets or clearing up the crap other people leave behind.

BIgBagofJelly · 05/01/2017 14:02

Of course she should pay, why should the rest of us fund the clean up of totally unnecessary litter.

JanuaryIsTheNewMonday · 05/01/2017 14:06

She should pay - I cannot think of a single reason why she shouldn't. It is disgusting to drop fag ends.

Sherlock35 · 05/01/2017 14:09

The only kind of tickets you might be able to get away with are the ones you get if you park in a private car park and even then, you're pushing it

If this is a fine from the council, they will pursue it, they will send bailiffs round. She should pay it and get it over with.

MuseumOfCurry · 05/01/2017 14:12

This is the best thing I've read all day - I thought that littering laws were absolutely never enforced. Your friend is a filthy beast and should pay the fine.

cx5221 · 05/01/2017 14:14

I really don't think she'll get away with not paying in to be honest.
I presume they have some sort of evidence of her dropping it? A Photo? It would be pretty hard to deny it in court and I can't see a judge being lenient about her comitting an offence being caught comitting an offence and and then refusing to pay the minimum fine. The maximum fine for littering is £2500 I think so if she refuses to pay she could well be fined that much in court.

I also think it's a bit shitty to take it to court because in the large scheme of things the council will have to prepare a case, pay solicitors, a judges time will be taken up plus time of the court ushers legal secretaries etc. The cost of that will run into thousands and she'll still have to pay the fine anyway. Your friend sounds like she needs to own her shit rather than go down a path that could waste a few thousand pounds of tax payers money when she was in the wrong anyway.

I don't think your friend has any grounds for appeal or any reason to believe she doesn't have to pay this fine to be honest. She intentionally threw rubbish out of the car onto the floor which is an offence when she could have easily put it in the ash tray on her car. Every car has them so she had no reason not to use it for its intended purpose.

RentANDBills · 05/01/2017 14:18

She should pay.

Out of interest though, if she wasn't in her car (and therefore presumably identifiable from the numberplate) how would they actually track her down? The people who give out these fines, do they ask for ID? And would anyone actually give their ID in that circumstance?
What an awful job to have to do I imagine they get all kinds of abuse.

Original poster

PopcornFiend · 05/01/2017 14:21

I have told her to pay it.

She says the council officer had one of those cctv/recorders on his chest so she'll be on camera, plus she gave him her driving licence so he has all her details!

I think she thinks it's one of those things where no one will really "bother" chasing it. I have gently advised I think that's a high risk and fairly daft strategy plus she should've just used a bin.

OP posts:

gamerchick · 05/01/2017 14:21

Man those things go up. She needs to pay it.

cx5221 · 05/01/2017 14:33

The council will chanse it for a few months and then pass it onto a debt recovery scheme.

The debt recovery scheme will then increase the fine and send bayliffes to her house to collect the fine which will have at least doubled by that point.

If she doesn't pay they will take her to court asking for the fine, their fees, court fees etc if the judge doesn't rule in her favour (and they won't) she'll be paying a hell of a lot more than £75.

It's not going to go away if she ignores it. Also I'm sure I read recently that debt collectors can take their claim to court and get a CCJ issued in your name without you even knowing (but I did read it in the daily fail so dunno if it's right)

I bought a second hand car last year a few days before I bought it the owner got a ticket in a car park and didn't pay. Obviously by the time they checked on the dvla website 28 days later the car was registered to me.
I told council over phone I didn't own car then they asked me to send proof. I stupidly completely forgot as we were moving house, dd was starting school, I stared a new job etc life just got busy. About 4 months later a bayliffe started hammering on my door to recover £500 (Their fees for a £20 fine)
I explained it was the previous owner he wasn't interested said he would be back 4 hours later. Thankfully managed to fax proof of ownership to council that day and they stopped him coming back as he told me he'd be taking stuff from my garden if I wouldn't let him in house! So the longer answer is still no she won't get away with it.

TheWoodlander · 05/01/2017 14:33

She should pay - it' not just going to go away, and they add other charges on if you don't.

I think it's similar to the parking tickets - and I knew someone who didn't pay one of those and ended up paying £600.

BigMamaFratelli · 05/01/2017 14:49

I work with the Courts. Once a fortnight they have a day where pages and pages of people are dealt with for littering. They do pursue you,they will not give uup . It'll cost less in the long run to just cough up now.

RortyCrankle · 05/01/2017 15:31

I loathe people who litter and even as an ex-smoker think it's a disgusting habit to drop dog ends. So personally I hope she refuses to pay it and will subsequently be summoned to court and charged with a fine ten times as large.

StarryIllusion · 05/01/2017 16:06

She will get a higher fine and a conviction if it goes to court and if she was seen doing it then it will. They always press for prosecution where they can. Is it worth a criminal conviction? Just fucking pay it and stop being such a filthy cow.

Soubriquet · 05/01/2017 16:25

Yep she needs to pay

And if she's daft enough to think it will go away...well the bigger fine will knock some sense into her for next time won't it

statetrooperstacey · 05/01/2017 16:28

Everything cx5 said.
They absolutely will chase it. I know 2people who have been fined for dropping cigarette ends out of car windows, they were both driving at the time and didn't know until they got letters the ought the post(cctv).
They both paid the fines as it was the cheapest option . Tell her to pay up and do it quickly.

thecraftyfox · 05/01/2017 16:36

If she doesn't pay it, it will go to court. It won't lead to a CCJ, it's not a civil matter it's a criminal matter and the fine is the way to stop it going any further. It's an "absolute offence", ie no excuses accepted, so if it gets to court she isn't going to be able to say she dropped it but was going to pick it up or that she didn't realise. Whichever council issued the fine will likely have an information page on their website about it. I work for a Council, some of my colleagues got hit with fines last year for dropping fag ends outside the building they work in, the dopey articles. They kicked up a huge fuss until they realised that paying the £80 was actually the easy way out.

HolidayArmidillo · 05/01/2017 16:40

A friend of mine dropped a tissue and got issued a fine for littering. She ignored the fine and the subsequent letters. It ended up going to court and her £75 fine ended up being more than £500 with charges and court fees added on. Tell her to pay and not to be so silly next time.

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