What's fair for contact arrangements?!

[hungryhippo90]

Been through the wringer a bit lately, whilst trying to find somewhere new to live and breakdown of relationship.

I'm rebuilding my life, I've recently found somewhere new to live, with my low income I'd need Housing benefit- no one accepts Housing benefit, so ex has been helpful enough to say that he will sign the rental agreement with me and pay half the rent instead of maintenance towards DD. (More than he would be expected to pay, but I think it's partly guilt that I ended up without anywhere to live because he fucked up so badly when we were together)

Which I think is very fair of him. It's £500 a month he will be paying.

he is living with his parents, and hopefully getting a grip of his financial situation- he really needs to. If he can sort out the things he needs to, and accepts to be more financially responsible, and go to relationship counselling with me, we may be able to avoid getting divorced. (I've given him 3 months from signing the separation agreement I've written up to deal with creditors+ OR of his bankruptcy which he's in the second year of now! Plus paying all his (meagre) living expenses + maintenance to deal with, and keep up with the payments on)
Must also point out, he's not hard up. His income has dropped, but is still £2800 take home per month.

Now I've set the scene, I'll get to my question,

For contact I'm going to propose that he can see DD for two evenings per week, which he can choose.
1 of which, I would like him to ensure she gets to see his parents. She is close to MIL, and without me specifying this he may not ensure they have a continuing relationship.

2nd night he can do as he chooses, but if he wants to, he can come to the house and cook for himself and DD, I will either go to my room or go out. I don't want to get in the way, but I'm also aware that he wouldn't be able to make meals at his mums because she's the one who cooks in their house and would feel a bit upset if they were eating but not with his parents if that makes sense.

At the weekends, pretty much the same drill. One day plus the night. He can stay if he wishes. I would like 24 hours notice if he plans on staying here so I can go and stay at my dads or something.

I don't want to cause the friction that will happen if he tries to parent differently under his parents roof. Their relationship is already strained. The debts, the gambling, and now he's home because his marriage has broken down, have all made them disappointed in him.

I've also offered to almost share my car with him, he drives a 20 year old, damp and smelly Honda, I worry about the safety of it and don't want my daughter travelling in it. So when he has contact, he is also able to use my car.

Am I being reasonable? I feel like I'm being really controlling. I hope not, because I'm just trying to make things easiest for him, and best for DD.

AIBU?!

Plus if they can evidence that he is spending nights in this new house (regardless of joint tenancy, though even more likely if it is a joint tenancy) tax credits are even more likely to stop paying you.

They haven't paid me anything yet. They want proof before paying me anything.

The tax credits are the only way I can become not reliant on him.

What do I do get him removed from the agreement?

I can see I made a big mistake in just going to find somewhere new via private letting.

I've got the keys for new place, just haven't signed agreement.

You can get him removed from the draft tenancy agreement and added back as a guarantor of the rent. It sounds a reasonable plan to me. Even if later he stops paying at least you've got somewhere you can rent to get yourself sorted out again, perhaps if your illness allows it build up some extra income too so become less reliant on him and perhaps even find a new boyfriend.

I don't agree private letting was the wrong route. It can be a much better place to rent than council housing and you get more choice and it's nicer.

You are being very kind to him wrt contact, car, sharing your space.

Please don't do it. He needs to parent on his terms which means in his own space. What happens when you meet a new partner?

I started off on this path. Two years on it's hideous. XH doesn't respect my boundaries, abuses me in my own home, and seems to think he is entitled to be here every bloody day. It has driven me to seek therapy just so I can manage his behaviour.

Set out your stall from the beginning. You have split up. Be independent. Your DC will have their own relationship with their DF on his terms.

OP as I and other posters have said is he able to pay your rent under his bankruptcy order.

If he is in bankruptcy isn't he paying money to the official receiver? I don't think he is supposed to have hundreds of £s spare is he? Maybe it will be OK if its shown as child maintenance but I would be careful.

Sorry, I've no idea why it reads to people that I'm forcing him to do things with DD in his time, I'm not. I was asking peoples opinions on whether it's the kind of thing to propose that he has the offer of using the house. As it is DDs home. I'm not trying to force anything. I was trying to come to some sort of proposal to put forward.
I'd also seen in template separation agreements that there is a clause where NRP spends a certain amount of contact time with extended family members.

I have no issues regarding contact. I was trying to get something in writing for the long term is all.

I don't really want a link with him. If I could I would never speak to him again. But I cannot do that.

I also don't want to financially punish him. I just feel it's awful he's dragged me through the wringer, I'm in the situation I am, and he's got off scot free. Seems unfair to me.

If I was to include spousal support it would be well below the £500 I've proposed. I believe it's 20% of his income, which is £580? A month?

Maybe I didn't make this coear, but he was made bankrupt in December 2015, he is still yet to pay his OR a penny. Hence him being in the second year of Bankruptcy,

Try not to be toich.People are trying to help and can see massive potential problems.

I would see your local council for a list of landlords who will that housing benefit,

I would speak to the CAB about the tenancy. There are issues with that. You need to protect yourself.

It is not reasonable to have him in your home. What happens when you get new partners?

When you split, you need to do everything you can to remove the other person from your life - for legal reasons (benefits) and emotional ones.

This seems like such a recipe for disaster! Sorry, but I think that is dawning on you now? The control of access time is also a red flag, you need to relinquish control/responsibility of what sort of dad he is, and how they spend their time. You are now master of your own destiny, make decisions that aren't reliant on him, financially or emotionally. Future you will thank you.

There is a huge disparity in our incomes, my income is around £600 a month, his is £2800 take home.

I'm not trying to be touchy and I can understand I may have come across badly on this thread, but I've tried to be as helpful as possible in offering him the ability to use my house and car, not because it helps me, but might make contact more workable.

I'd also said that he will have DD two evenings per week, plus the day and night at weekend. Which I think works out as 50% of the time she's not at school.

I'm not trying to be touchy at all, I just feel a bit like people are pointing out how awful I'm being, offering to leave my house to walk around an area I don't particularly know. So contact is easier.

I understand that asking him to pay rent is an awful idea, I don't think I had much choice. I found out about a landlord who would rent to him, without any checks or anything, which meant I had keys to a house, so we had somewhere to go.

I don't have close friends who would put us up, I don't have family except for my dad who's not always great,

I am so close to breaking point, I can't even believe.
I keep trying to do the right thing, and I'm in so much trouble, I'm still trying to do right by my daughter (and by extension him) and I feel like I'm being told that I am being unfair in asking what I am.

Not that he gave a shit when he was borrowing money off me that he never intended on giving back, or when he wasn't paying rent knowing I wouldn't be able to find somewhere new to live if we got chucked out. Or when he was blowing his money and not paying for things we seriously needed.
It was ok for him to swan off to his mums house where he doesn't worry about anything, whilst I had to try and sort out my life.

my life is in such a state, and of course, I'm pissed off because it's not a mess I created.

I'm sorry if I've seemed unnecessarily touchy to anyone. I've not intended it. I'm thankful to anyone who has tried to give me some advice.

Sleep on it

Why the fuck are you trying to make his life easier? All you need to do is tell him his contact time is X. It's then up to him to sort out where he goes and what he does. Its the least he can do after the shit pile he dropped you in.

And please, please do not sign a tenancy agreement with him. You know he will backtrack on this and leave you up shit creek again. He's done it before and that's why you're in the mess you're in. Wtf are you giving him the chance to make it even worse? Are you insane?!

Maybe I didn't make this coear, but he was made bankrupt in December 2015, he is still yet to pay his OR a penny. Hence him being in the second year of Bankruptcy

I can't therefore see them being happy about him paying your rent! They would expect him to pay CM and that's it

I've just looked it up online, his income V my income,
Child support and maintenance to me =£815. The £500 I was asking for is a lot less than this.

OP. I'm sorry you find yourself in such a difficult position. I think it's clear that you've thought long and hard about how to deal with finances/contact/living arrangements. It's easy for people to read through your OP and subsequent posts and pick holes and find problems. That's not the intention. Most people will be looking to give you a neutral view, based upon your facts and their knowledge/experience.

I can't add anything to the points about your housing situation. I would say however that now you are no longer with your partner, just bear in mind that your sole responsibility is to facilitate contact. It doesn't have to be, and in my opinion shouldn't be, in your new home. That's confusing for your dd, doesn't allow you adequate privacy, and blurs the boundaries.

You've mentioned your ex's relationship with his parents. If it worsens you may find him wanting to spend more time with your dd at your home. Does he get to have a key? And what if you or he meets somebody else, how does that fit in with him being in your home?

I think 2 nights per week and a day and night at the weekend is a good arrangement. If he's living at his parents then your dd will see a lot of her GPs by default. You can say you'd like the relationship to continue, but I don't think you should stipulate it. It's up to him to arrange where and how he sees his dd. It's just another consequence of his actions, don't micromanage it for him.

£815 you presume you will get Because of a calculator.
If they was too ring him
And he says I pay this much in rent
This much on other expenses.
Etc I can guarentee that £815 will vanish very quickly and be a much lower number than £500.

My sisters ex did this on her. The calculator estimated £300 a month, she started a claim and well well what do you know? He suddenly declared he pays rent at his mums (never has done, never will do)
Pays this Bill , spends this much travelling to and from work.
That estimated £300 turned into a very dismal £105 a month. Which he is actually fighting to get lowered

Child support and maintenance to me =£815. The £500 I was asking for is a lot less than this.

No it isn't as you won't be having her every night.

Also you haven't answered if he has spoken to his OR about this.

I don't think what you are suggesting is crazy, especially as this might be an interim while you get couples counselling.

A good option might be to say that when he has contact he can come to yours in the immediate/ short term with the acknowledgement that if you seperatre longer term he will need his own place or for him to take her to the in laws if he is still with them. That way if things become unreconsilable you have an out.

Sharing the car isn't crazy, and there are probably benefits to trying to be nice and make things easier for each other, that might set a positive patter for later if a full break up happened, but again I would start by saying 'I know you're a bit stuck for a car so in the short term I don't mind you using mine with DD until you properly get back on your feet' ? This suggests that you are expecting him to get these things sorted along with the rest if his life.

I don't think that asking for DD to have time with the in laws is a bad thing - you can't force it but I think if you underline how much the relationship is important to DD he should acknowledge that it's a good idea.

No offence, but I think your relationship has become one in which you look out him and keep his life in order. Continuing this might not be the way to achieve and outcome where he gets his life in order and manages his issues independently.

Good luck with everything.🌺

Fidelia, I hope I don't out myself to anyone by saying this, but he is/was in a very responsible job role, he had a great deal to do with a house being built, man says it's gonna be a rental property anyway. From there he mentions I would like the house... I don't know the ins or outs of this conversation, but by this point I was calling him telling him just how much shit I was in, because of him, and he needed to help dsort it (I know it sounds entitled, but when we got together I had a landlord who would accept HB, and he was a hard find! I had been hyper anxious about the chance of losing that tenancy, because I didn't believe I would find another. Having somewhere over my head is the most important thing and he is the one who refused to pay the rent) this man hands over the keys, by this point he hadn't even received any deposit, done any checks I've (just) received a tenancy agreement, which I am yet to sign...
the landlord has been quite naive in this. But I need somewhere to live, will pay the rent and would never find myself in a better house.
The only problem I have is that he will not accept Housing benefit at all. I believe that he may not have the right kind of mortgage for it.
It's possible for me to just get ex to be the guarantor and take him off as a consigner.

I was expecting i was going to end up in a b&b with my daughter, but instead ended up in a really nice new build. It's lovely and I feel really, really lucky.

Ex came through for us, which is a first.

I dont not believe that he would say that he is paying more on anything to try and pay less. When I found out about this house. I had quickly said that there was no way I could afford it. The idea of rent being paid actually came from him... we split up in November. I haven't asked him for a penny, just the £20 he borrowed when he left.
His words were, whatever you need. I know that this was my fault and that it's ensuring DD has somewhere decent to live

I said no, and thought If it's taken as maintenance.
I knew that maintenance would be a bit lower, but spousal maintenance would make it more than the half amount of rent.

He would also only have DD over night once a week. He works 6 days a week. With early starts of around 4:30 am, so I think he would only have her on the Saturday night for an overnight stay. He would visit her whenever she wanted, but overnights are tricky because of his work pattern.

I don't know if he has spoken to the OR about this arrangement, I seriously doubt it, because he hasn't spoken to them since the January after he was made bankrupt. But if he has to pay Support to his daughter and estranged wife, I don't see what they can do about it. They haven't stepped in and stopped him spending a good 80% of his wages on 888 poker. Would have been great if they could have.

I do understand that the arrangement of him paying half the rent is not a good idea, if felt like the only way, but I'll figure out a way to sort it. If I manage to get WTC and CTC it's gonna be possible.

They want to check my entire claim before they pay anything, because of my disability, the relationship breakdown and my business... think they find it a bit odd I work the hours I do for the little amount I earn.

I've just managed to put my fees up by £15 a week. Not a lot, but that's almost my electric and gas bill taken care of by the end of the month.

I don't know if he has spoken to the OR about this arrangement, I seriously doubt it, because he hasn't spoken to them since the January after he was made bankrupt. But if he has to pay Support to his daughter and estranged wife, I don't see what they can do about it

Then both of you could get into serious trouble over this.

No they can't stop him paying CM. They can very much stop him paying over what he should be. Which he will be if he pays your rent!

This could end up with you both in hot water.